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 Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires

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MessageSujet: Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires   Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires Icon_minitimeLun 19 Avr 2010 - 1:05

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Are there two views about India, in China?
Peking Man’s Zero Sum game? Chindia vs Chinapak? or Beijing Man’s Chimerica?
We have two visions for China. In one vision India thinks of China as its biggest threat. The other vision sees China and India working together. Since 1962 Indian politicians have considered China as its biggest threat. A search in google on “China is India’s biggest threat” produces 1.2 million threads. Most recently, China bigger threat than Pakistan, says IAF chief. Dr. Fukkukh Saleem in a sensational article published in The News has tried to highlight the future of Sino-Pak and Sino-Indian relationships (Capital Suggestion). Dr. Saleem bases his case on the views of Dr. Zhao Gancheng and Dr Yang Jiemian two Chinese professors. Dr. Saleem presents the views of Dr. Daojiong, a very pro-American and pro-business Chinese professor as evidence that China is reconsidering its relationship with Pakistan. There is nothing in the writings of either one of these authors that seem to suggest a zero sum game in South Asia. The evidence seems to point to the exact opposite.
Earlier this year, the United States’ decision to approve a $ 6.4-billion arms sale to Taiwan sparked a series of agitated commentaries in China’s military journals. The tone will sound somewhat familiar to an Indian audience: it reflected a growing anxiety among strategists that the U.S. was building a “crescent-shaped ring” to encircle and contain China. Interestingly, much of the debate focussed on what role India would — or would not — play in a supposed U.S.-led “encirclement.” Some strategists expressed concern that an eventual “integration of India” into an American alliance “would profoundly affect China’s security,” as the official China Daily reported. Dai Xu, an Air Force Colonel of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), warned that China needed to be vigilant against this growing network running “from Japan to India” that would suffocate China. The Hindu.
This much is certain, the subject brings to the forefront one of the most emotional issues for Pakistan. This will be discussed in much detial in Pakistani circles and every nuanceas well as Indian gloaters who think that their long standing dreams have come true. Sino-India relationship and Pakistan
Others, however, were not so convinced, and instead sought to calm the tensions. Pei Yuanying, former Chinese Ambassador to India, said India, as “an independent international power in the international arena,” was “unlikely to be part of any such U.S. scheme.” Shen Dingli, one of the leading voices in the strategic community in Beijing, also disagreed with Dai’s views in an interview with The Hindu, suggesting that the current relationship was sound enough for China to have no reason to worry about India’s ties with the U.S.
These differing views point to an ongoing debate in Beijing on a question that many policymakers are grappling with: how should China engage with a rising India? On one side of the debate are voices from the PLA, who are pressing Beijing to take a harder line with India and who see little room for cooperation between two rivals. On the other are voices in the Hu Jintao government and official think tanks, which are pushing for a more moderate and non-confrontational foreign policy line, one which they see as crucial to China’s own self-interest and continued development. The Hindu.
It is not about Dollars and Cents only, it is about the Chinese Century. Paragh Khanna writes about it eloquently in The 2nd World. “Waving Goodbye to Hegemony” By Parag Khanna: Dawn of a multipolar world with China and Europe andmaybe Russia. China has achieved technological independence, and is now moving beyond simple fighter aircraft and NASA propaganda toy rockets. It has “taken over” Africa and recently signed huge deals with Venezuela and Brazil. Pakistan is part of the String of Pearl Strategyin which Gwader-Sri-Lanka-Thailand-Burma are essential links. What China wants is to convert Asian oceans into Chinese lakes (String of Pearls strategy makes it an ” ‘Asian’ Ocean”–a Chinese Lake). Pakistan and Sri Lanka are key links in this venture.
The military view
The appearance of a number of articles and commentaries last year in military journals and official Communist Party-run newspapers has led some to suggest that the first group is increasingly beginning to have its voice heard. In recent months, articles in influential publications like the People’s Daily, have taken a noticeably harder line on India, accusing New Delhi of “arrogance” and calling on China to take a stronger position on the border dispute. The People’s Daily, in particular, has also begun to devote extensive coverage to India’s military build-up, frequently speaking of an “India threat.”
The articles more or less reflected the “PLA view” of Sino-Indian ties, according to Srikanth Kondapalli, a professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University who studies the Chinese military. According to him and other analysts, this view is predicated on three basic policy positions on India. The first assumes that India is seeking to become a great power. The policy response is to support Pakistan, which China continues to do, and confine India’s influence to South Asia. The second, he says, assumes that India has “hegemonic ambitions in South Asia” — a phrase often used by the People’s Daily last year. The policy response in China is to “oppose hegemony” by supporting smaller states in South Asia, like Nepal and Bangladesh. The third is on India’s presence in the Indian Ocean, and the policy response is to strengthen China’s naval capabilities. The Hindu.
The Peking Man is dead (the 500,000-year old fossil evidence of human presence in China , has transformed). Those talking about “Peking” are stuck in a time warp from the 60s. There is no city in China spelled as “Peking”. The “Beijing Man” cannot forget Indian intervention in Tibet. India tried to make trouble for the Chinese right before the Olympics andis competing withChina in Africa for Oil well. India defines Tibet as half of China. If Nehru’s plans had succeeded in 1947, China would have been broken up into many parts. The resolution of the border dispute with Pakistan save China as a national unit. India also has a huge border dispute on the McMohan Line and in Kashmir. Aksai Chin is a huge issue for India because it is China’s the only land link to Tibet. China recently poured water on the Indo-Chinese detente when it claimed that Arunchal Pradeh was Chinese territory. The claim was so seriously pursued that an Indian athlete from Arunchal Pradeh was not allowed entry into China. China alo has been instigating issues in Sikkim, Bhutan and Nepal. Depite the removal of the Maoist PM, the new government in Khatmandu is openly Pro-Chinese. Between the Devil & the Deep Sea–India’s vulnerability in the Malacca Straits & the Arabian Sea
The other view
Much as the PLA is influential, its view by no means reflects a consensus opinion among the highest policymakers. Besides the PLA, there are at least three groups which have a role in shaping China’s India policy, including commercial lobbies, retired officials and a select group of India scholars in official think tanks. This section tends to view the relationship beyond the narrow military paradigm of the PLA. It argues that despite the persisting mistrust between the countries, it is in China’s own interest, both from the point of view of sustaining its economic development and its standing as a responsible world power, to have harmonious relations with India and a peaceful periphery.
“Many people in the Chinese government realise that despite historical differences, there are growing commonalities in relations between the two countries and their positions on international issues,” says Ma Jiali, a leading South Asia scholar at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), who advises the government on its India policy. “There is also the common goal that both countries do not want to see a unipolar world.” He considers “four roles” India plays in shaping his policy view — “a close neighbour, a developing country with common goals, a rising power and an increasingly important international player.” “The basic fact is,” he continues, “we must have good relations with India, or our national interest will be damaged.”
His view is echoed by Sun Shihai, another influential ‘India hand’ at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. He says he “completely disagrees” with the policy views voiced by the nationalistic commentaries in much of the official media last year. “Many of those reports misperceived India very deeply,” says Professor Sun. “Among most scholars at least, there is a growing awareness that India’s power is rising, its international status is rising, and these facts are a reality that cannot be altered.” He believes that it is in China’s self-interest to work with India on issues in which the countries have a common stake such as climate change and combating terrorism. “China has more respect [now] for India’s rise, and it is in our interest to co-operate where we can, as we did so effectively last year at Copenhagen [on climate change],” he says. “But as two rising powers with growing international roles and strategic weight, cooperation and competition will be natural. What the governments need to do is manage the competition and avoid conflict. Most serious scholars are of this view.” The Hindu.
The Chinese version of “speak softly and carry a big stick” was enunciated by the realist Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping “Observe calmly; secure our position; cope with affairs calmly; hide our capacities and bide our time; be good at maintaining a low profile; and never claim leadership.” Beijing has been silently building a big stick for the past six decades. The Chinese see the Hillary Clinton trip for what it is–begging Beijing to continue to purchase US Treasury bonds. India feels the pain: The US begs Beijing for money
China has grown to be a new heavyweight player and stepped into the limelight on the world stage. And its role in salvaging the plummeting world economy from hitting bottom looms large and active, as the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said during her just wrapped-up Asian tour, ‘the U.S. appreciates the continued Chinese confidence in the U.S treasuries.’ If the Cold War was ‘a tug of war’ between East and West, and a showcase of hard power, what we have today, for the first time in history, is a global, multicivilizational and multipolar competition, and a display of smart power. To be the winner, one has to seek more cooperation rather than confrontation.By Li Hongmei People’s Daily Online
Reading the debate
Do these different views matter to India? Chinese foreign policy is ultimately decided at the highest levels of the ruling Communist Party’s Central Committee using these various inputs. But how these inputs get used is “an extremely complicated process,” says Prof. Kondapalli. “Various groups put out their agenda to try and have their opinions heard, but what is eventually decided depends on who has greater influence at a given moment in time.” For now though, the outcome of this debate still seems uncertain. “The academic community appears to follow a soft and co-operative line while the PLA maintains its stridency to keep India on tenterhooks,” says Brigadier (retd.) Arun Sahgal of the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi.
Until there is greater clarity on its outcome, the mistrust between the countries will likely persist. For usually, it is only the harder “PLA view” of India that gets covered in the media, serving as fodder for the often over-hyped ‘China threat’ perspectives dished out by strategic analysts. Part of the reason, no doubt, is that these views are more “newsworthy” than balanced views from the government and other scholars. But another factor behind misperceptions is the continuing opacity in China’s own government, in both policy-making and the state’s control of the media.
“The main problem in understanding China’s policies is the lack of transparency, which often leads to misperceptions” Prof. Kondapalli says. Consequently, even extreme opinions, from any media outlet, often tend to be regarded as Beijing’s official line, and drown out other views even if they are no more than voices in an ongoing debate. And until China becomes more transparent, analysts say, external observers will likely continue to imagine the worst when reading the tea leaves. The Hindu. ANANTH KRISHNAN. Behind China’s India policy, a growing debate
The Maoists in Nepal are linked to the Maoist/Naxalites in India. The Indian Naxalite control 40% of th e land mass of India. The same old, same old Indian dream (and banya thinking) that the Hindi-Chini bhai bhai will be revived is not in the cards. It is now an Indian nightmare. The Chinese are aggressively taking a foothold in Sri Lanka, much to the chagrin of India. China is supporting the TAPC and TAPC pipeline, and selling 150-500 JFThunder to Pakistan (some for re-export). China is developing J-10B with Pakistani help. China does not have access to Western technology while Pakistan does. China is helping Pakitan build two new shipyards, a brand spanking new Electronic Manufacturing Complex (similar to Heavy Mechanical Coplex), Submarines and Frigates. Chasnupp 3 and 4 are in the works and Chasnupp 5 and Chasnupp 6 are in the Pipeline. China recently started patrolling the Somalian Coast and will surely need berthing facilities in Gwader. Chinese and Pakistanis helped Lanka defeat the Indian trained and sponsored LTTE. One of the major events of this syear is the invitation of Sri Lanka as an observer to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). It remains to be seen if Iran will invited a a full member.
The Iran-Indian relationhips has been sacrificed on the alter of the Indian love affair with Israel. India launched an Iran-specific satellite for Israel and stabbed Iran in the back at the IAEA. Both events and the Israeli influence in India doesn’t bode well for Iranian-Indian relations. The seduction of Iran by the USA has been initiated by the Neocon ‘ Neocon and Builderberger Mr. Fareed Zakaria. He covers Iran in this weeks Newsweek magazine and portrays a softer image of the Ayutullahs and even Ahmedinijad. Another seminal event is Russian Gozprom’s recent bid to build the Iran-Pakistan pipeline to be extended to China. Iran andPakistan signed the gas deal with Russian sponsorship, Chinese support and US chagrin.This pipeline sums up the new geotrategic realities of South and West Asia.
Keywords: India, China, Indo-China ties, External Affairs Minister, S.M. Krishna, People’s Liberation Army, debate
http://rupeenews.com/2010/04/05/are-there-two-views-about-india-in-china/

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MessageSujet: Re: Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires   Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires Icon_minitimeVen 12 Nov 2010 - 22:29

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India rattles sabre ahead of Chinese talks
By James Lamont in Calcutta

Published: November 11 2010 17:34 | Last updated: November 11 2010 17:34

India has formed a military battalion named after the state of Arunachal Pradesh, also claimed by China, only days before talks between the two countries aimed at settling border disputes.

The Arunachal Scouts was raised formally in Shillong, the Assamese garrison city, this week to defend the north-eastern state, which borders China.
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The battalion will have about 5,000 troops, drawn from local people and trained for the Himalayan environment and combat above an altitude of 1,500 feet. Its formation is part of a reinforcement of the state’s defences, which also include the modernisation of airfields and road infrastructure


The development comes days before officials from India and China meet in New Delhi for the 14th round of talks to settle a border dispute in which China claims Arunachal Pradesh as south Tibet. At the end of October, Wen Jiabao, China’s premier, and Manmohan Singh, his Indian counterpart, agreed to reinvigorate efforts to resolve disagreement over the colonial-era McMahon Line before Mr Wen’s visit to New Delhi next month.

China inflicted a humiliating defeat on India in a war over the territory in 1962. Of late, Indian officials have become rattled by China’s growing influence in the region in countries such as Burma, Pakistan and Sri Lanka and what they describe as Beijing’s “assertiveness” in its territorial claims.

Dorjee Khandu, chief minister of Arunachal Pradesh, said the battalion would reflect the “martial strength” of the north-east region, which already numbers regiments including the Assam Rifles, Gorkha Rifles and Naga Regiment. It would have particular strengths in adverse, often freezing, conditions and mountain warfare.

The formation of the battalion, he said, would create “one of the strongest, cohesive, disciplined and operationally proficient battalions of the Indian army”.

India’s armed forces are strengthening their presence speedily in Arunachal Pradesh, an area long starved of economic development and infrastructure.

P.V. Naik, head of India’s air force, said the region’s infrastructure was being overhauled to support modern weaponry.

“We are going for composite upgrading of capabilities in the north-east . . . ,” the air chief marshal said. “Eight advance landing grounds are being upgraded and there are five to six major airfields where infrastructure will be improved to enable them to receive more modern aircraft.”

The infrastructure investment coincides with the selection of 126 jet fighters in a deal worth about $11bn. One potential supplier said India was looking for aircraft that could perform longer-distance sorties over the Himalayan region than had been required to protect India from Pakistan, its traditional rival.

Indian officials said they had discussed their concerns about China with Barack Obama, US president, on his visit to New Delhi. They said the discussions were held in the light of the recent dispute between Beijing and Tokyo over territory in the South China Sea and Beijing’s readiness to use economic sanctions and high-level diplomatic embarrassment.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/416a2f62-edb7-11df-9612-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz156bC8QeI

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MessageSujet: Re: Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires   Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires Icon_minitimeSam 13 Nov 2010 - 4:15

Sa laisse a réfléchir...

et merci FAMAS Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires 11
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MessageSujet: Re: Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires   Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires Icon_minitimeMar 26 Mai 2020 - 22:05

ça se tend sérieusement entre l'Inde et la Chine, des troupes chinoises serait en territoire indien...

The Indian Express a écrit:
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/china-india-line-of-actual-control-ladakh-6427647/

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MessageSujet: Re: Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires   Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires Icon_minitimeVen 29 Mai 2020 - 18:44

Citation :
Dans un face-à-face tendu, les forces chinoises et indiennes renforcent leurs positions dans l’Himalaya

par Laurent Lagneau · 29 mai 2020


Chine Vs Inde : la guerre des empires _12f5331

Politique du fait accompli en mer de Chine méridionale, vues sur l’archipel japonais Senkaku, menaces visant Taïwan avec de possibles exercices impliquant ses deux porte-avions prévus en août dans les environs des îles Pratas, reprise en main de Hong Kong malgré la promesse de ne pas toucher au système politique et judiciaire pendant 50 ans de ce territoire que le Royaume-Uni lui a rétrocédé en 1997… Pékin fait feu de tout bois alors que la crise provoquée par l’épidémie de Covid-19 n’est pas encore terminée.

À cette liste, il faut aussi ajouter les tensions avec New Delhi, qui vont crescendo depuis quelques semaines, sur fond de disputes territoriales le long de la frontière séparant l’Inde et la Chine, appelée « Ligne de contrôle actuelle » [LAC, ou encore « Ligne Mac Mahon].

Outre les différents territoriaux, qui donnèrent lieu à un bref conflit pour le contrôle des territoires himalayens, en 1962, New Delhi s’inquiète du projet chinois de détourner les eaux du fleuve « Yarlung Zangbo » qui, prenant sa source au Tibet, traverse la partie orientale de l’Inde, sous le nom de « Brahmapoutre ».

À Pékin, on prend ombrage de la construction, par l’Inde, de la route « Darbuk-Shyok-DBO », qui relie Leh, la capitale du Ladakh, Daulat Beg Oldi [DBO], près de la frontière chinoise. Devant être pratiquable en permanence, cet axe doit notamment faciliter la circulation des troupes indiennes le long de la Ligne de contrôle actuelle.

Deux secteurs sont particulièrement concernés par ces disputes territoriales. Revendiqué par le Chine et le Bouthan, le plateau du Doklam en fait partie. Ce territoire est stratégique pour l’Inde car situé à quelques encablures du corridor de Siliguri [surnommé le « cou de poulet »], lequel relie les plaines du nord et les États indiens du nord-Est. En 2017, la construction, par la Chine, d’une route dans cette zone, non loin de l’État indien du Sikkim, avait donné lieu à des tensions, récemment ravivées par une nouvelle « bagarre » à coups de bâton entre soldats chinois et indiens, le 10 mai dernier.

L’autre secteur concerné est le celui du Ladakh, dans le nord de l’Inde, qui fait face à la préfecture de Ngari, située dans la région autonome chinoise du Xizang [Tibet]. Or, selon des sources sécuritaires indiennes, le 5 mai, environ 250 soldats chinois auraient fait une incursion dans cette région, précisément dans la région du lac Pangong Tso, ce qui aurait entraîné une bagarre avec leurs homologues indiens, réglée, là encore, à coups de bâton.

Or, la Chine revendique une partie du Ladakh. Et elle avait protesté quand, en 2019, New Delhi avait décidé d’en faire un « territoire de l’Union », c’est à dire relevant directement de l’autorité du gouvernement central indien.

Cité par RFI, Harsh Pant, directeur de recherche à l’Observer research foundation de New Delhi, voit dans ses incidents un avertissement « politique » de la part de Pékin.

« L’Inde a changé sa politique envers la Chine depuis la crise du coronavirus. Elle a ainsi soutenu la demande d’enquête sur les origines du virus et deux députés indiens ont assisté à la prestation de serment du président taïwanais, ce qui est inédit. La perception est que la Chine refuse d’apprécier les sensibilités de l’Inde par rapport au Pakistan, alors pourquoi l’Inde ferait de même avec Taïwan? Taïwan pourrait donc devenir un nouvel instrument de la politique étrangère indienne », a en effet expliqué M. Pant.

Cependant, c’est surtout la construction de la route « Darbuk-Shyok-DBO » qui est pointée du doigt par Pékin, qui l’estime « illégale ».

« L’Inde a construit illégalement des installations de défense de l’autre côté de la frontière […] dans la région de la vallée de Galwan, ne laissant aux troupes de défense des frontières chinoises aucune autre option que de prendre les mesures nécessaires pour y répondre », a fait valoir Long Xingchun, un chercheur de l’Université des études internationales de Pékin, cité par le quotidien Global Times, qui défend la ligne du Parti communiste chinois.

Aussi, la Chine ne cesse de renforcer ses positions militaires près de la Ligne de contrôle actuelle depuis plusieurs semaines déjà. L’imagerie satellitaire montre en effet que, depuis deux mois, Pékin a entrepris de développer les infrastructures militaires de l’aéroport de Ngari-Gunsa, situé à un battement d’ailes de la frontière avec l’Inde. Au moins quatre avions de combat J-11 et J-16 [dérivés respectivement des Su-27 et Su-30 russes] y ont été repérés.


Citation :
Base apron revisit in hi-res shows the detachment of #China PLAAF Flankers on site May 2020 (first seen in DEC 2019) pic.twitter.com/H6zIXmGIDr

— d-atis☠ (@detresfa_) May 26, 2020


De même qu’un camp de l’Armée populaire de libération [APL] a été repéré dans les environs de la vallée de Galwann. Toujours selon l’imagerie satellitaire, la Chine y aurait déployé d’importants moyens d’artillerie ainsi que des chars et de l’infanterie mécanisée.

Citation :
Possible explanation of why #China PLA camps near the #Hotsprings area across the #India base in #Gogra have seen recent activity part of the #IndiaChinaFaceOff, open source cartography shows a #chinese claim of more than 2Kms extending beyond the current line of actual control pic.twitter.com/CGLlqZTtTu

— d-atis☠ (@detresfa_) May 28, 2020


De son côté, l’Inde en fait autant. « L’armée indienne a envoyé des troupes et des armes supplémentaires dans l’est du Ladakh, dans le cadre de sa stratégie visant à repousser avec fermeté le comportement militaire agressif de la Chine », a ainsi écrit le quotidien Times of India, le 28 mai.

Deux jours plus tôt, le Premier ministre indien, Narendra Modi, avait tenu une réunion avec son conseiller à la sécurité nationale, Ajit Doval, et le chef d’état-major de la défense indienne afin de discuter du « renforcement et de la préparation militaire de l’Inde afin de faire face aux défis de sécurité extérieure. »

Cela étant, Pékin a donné le sentiment de vouloir calmer le jeu. « À l’heure actuelle, la situation le long de la frontière entre la Chine et l’Inde est généralement stable et sous contrôle. […] La Chine est déterminée à sauvegarder la sécurité de sa souveraineté territoriale nationale, ainsi qu’à sauvegarder la paix et la stabilité dans les zones frontalières sino-indiennes », a assuré le ministère chinois des Affaires étrangères.

Alors que le président américain, Donald Trump, a proposé sa « médiation », New Delhi a adopté similaire. « Nous sommes engagés avec la Chine à résoudre cette question de manière pacifique. L’Inde s’est engagée à maintenir la paix et la tranquillité dans les zones frontalières avec la Chine […] En même temps, nous restons fermement résolus à assurer la souveraineté et la sécurité nationale indiennes », a déclaré Anurag Srivastava, le porte-parole de la diplomatie indienne.

Pour rappel, la Chine et l’Inde sont deux puissances dotées de l’arme nucléaire. La doctrine officielle chinoise met l’accent sur le non-usage en premier, même si le pays était attaqué avec des armes conventionnelles. S’agissant de la doctrine indienne, elle fait l’objet d’une réflexion à New Delhi, comme l’a expliqué Bruno Tertrais, de la Fondation pour la recherche stratégique [FRS], en 2017.

Cette réflexion « confirme la tentation indienne d’avoir deux modes d’expression de la doctrine – l’un pour le Pakistan et l’autre pour la
Chine – étant entendu que même si le non-emploi en premier restait théoriquement en vigueur pour la dissuasion vis-à-vis de
Pékin, les interrogations d’ordre éthique [‘une démocratie doit-elle attendre d’être détruire pour frapper son adversaire?’] entendues depuis longtemps à Delhi sur le sujet demeureraient », a ainsi rapporté M. Tertrais.

http://www.opex360.com/2020/05/29/dans-un-face-a-face-tendu-les-forces-chinoises-et-indiennes-renforcent-leurs-positions-dans-lhimalaya/
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