juba2 General de Division
messages : 6954 Inscrit le : 02/04/2008 Localisation : USA Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Jeu 14 Avr 2011 - 16:46 | |
| Un autre article le G550 Israelien. - Citation :
- Defense News reports that Lockheed is considering several other airplanes. Relatively large options include Embraer’s ERJ-190 and even the Boeing 737, while the Bombardier Global Express and Gulfstream 550 (used as the Israeli “Nachshon” platform and in other specialty roles) offer planes that are broadly comparable in size to the ERJ-145 but offer specific engineering advantages.
The ERJ-145 has the smallest cabin volume by far among the planes being considered as platforms for the ACS (ERJ-145: 27.4 m3 | Gulfstream 550: 47.3 m3 | Bombardier Global Express: 60.6 m3 | Embraer ERJ-190 not given exactly, but it’s about 90 m3). The ERJ-145 also has greater payload weight capacity than similar sized rivals, as noted above, but offers much less range (up to 3,700 km) than the Bomardier Global Express (11,130 km) or Gulfstream 550 (12,501 km). Note that the Embraer ERJ-190 also has less stated range than these alternative options at 4,260 km, even if one discounts the figures for the smaller jets somewhat due to likely equipment weight. Range and time on station are important performance characteristics for effective SIGINT/ELINT/IMINT spy planes, and it’s conceivable that the US Army could push for trade-offs on that basis.
Every single one these options creates further dilemmas for Lockheed.
•Maintaining the Embraer (E)RJ-145 as its platform offers the fewest openings for outside challenges. On the other hand, stubbornness on this front could also lead to rejection of their platform by the US Army and souring of its customer relationship, followed by a recompete on the whole contract. •The Embraer ERJ-190 maintains the winning partnership team and offers the second fewest opportunities for outside challenges, but doubles the base airframe cost. Note that for a complex spy plane, electronics and modifications are the key and the airframe alone may not even represent a majority of the final fly-away cost. Nevertheless, note the platform switching costs that CECOM’s Blair cited. Even if these figures prove to be high, negotiations re: which party should bear the eventual costs would be intense, putting significant pressure on Lockheed to make concessions that would sharply impact their profitability on this program. •If the Boeing 737 is specified as the ACS replacement platform, it creates potential commonalities with the P-8 MMA maritime multimission aircraft and eliminates any ACS concerns about space, payload, or range. On the other hand, unit costs shoot up dramatically at $50-75 milion per unmodified airframe, and the whole ACS program may be rethought. •If Lockheed chooses the Gulfstream 550, Northrop-Grumman would have a solid basis to demand a re-opening of the competition given that Gulfstream was originally its partner. The G550 is also going to be more expensive than the ERJ-145, and may even be more expensive than the ERJ-190. •If they choose Bombardier’s Global Express instead, they get a larger airframe with far superior range to the Embraer options and leave Northrop-Grumman fewer openings to force a recompete. On the other hand, Gulfstream could now protest on “buy America” grounds since its plane is comparable. The Global Express is also going to be more expensive than the ERJ-145, and probably more expensive than the ERJ-190. This process isn’t over yet. Lockheed and the Army will be conducting conduct an interim review in the next few weeks, and Lockheed’s revised proposal is due on November 14, 2005. After that, the US Army has 30 days to decide what to do: accept the proposal, reject it and demand a new proposal from Lockheed, or re-open the competition as Northrop-Grumman has requested.
Based on the above data, DID still believes the ACS program is likely to go ahead with its existing contractor and a new aircraft platform – probably the ERJ-190. The kerfuffle around the shuffle, however, offers an illustrative window into many behind-the-scenes dynamics involved in military procurement of new systems.
Additional Readings:
•Want to know what happened next? DID’s guess re: a new platform was correct, but our pick was wrong. In the end, it was a good attempt, but not enough. The choices descried above may have won the contract, but in the end they lost both the contract and the larger program. •Read all DID coverage of the ACS Program. •Congressional Quarterly’s SpyTalk (Nov 20/08) – CIA Coverup Followed Another Spy Flight Mystery in Colombia. Was the RC-7’s 1999 loss in Colombia directly attributable to Col. James Hiett, the top U.S. counter-narcotics official in Colombia who was reportedly in the pay of drug lords? •Boston Globe (Oct 21/05) – Army Plane Needed Despite Troubles
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/acs-reconnaissance-plane-the-kerfuffle-around-the-shuffle-updated-01139/ | |
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Fremo Administrateur
messages : 24808 Inscrit le : 14/02/2009 Localisation : 7Seas Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Jeu 14 Avr 2011 - 17:09 | |
| le G550 AEW de la singapour a couté entre 250M$ l'unité en fait ... ce qui est beaucoup https://far-maroc.forumpro.fr/t2219p30-singapore-armed-forcesmais j'approuve pas ce choix ... une limousine pour l'AEW ... c'est pas trop l'Egypte, a acheté un G-IV Vip, il y a une dizaine d'années, a plus de 100M$ par exemple .. ce que je comprends pas, c'est pourquoi un achat de la sorte est passé par la DSCA _________________ | |
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Viper Modérateur
messages : 7967 Inscrit le : 24/04/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Jeu 14 Avr 2011 - 17:32 | |
| oui moi aussi pourquoi passer par DSCA ? les autres appareils VIP ont été faite en vente classique, achat direct avec le constructeur, comme les G-S III _________________ | |
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leadlord Colonel-Major
messages : 2787 Inscrit le : 11/07/2010 Localisation : montreal Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Jeu 14 Avr 2011 - 18:02 | |
| - Viper a écrit:
- oui moi aussi pourquoi passer par DSCA ?
les autres appareils VIP ont été faite en vente classique, achat direct avec le constructeur, comme les G-S III p-e que c'est les FRA qui a la propriété de l'avion et qui le met au service du gouvernement _________________ Pro rege, saepe, pro patria semper اقسم بالله العظيم ان اكون مخلصا لله و لملكي و ان اتفانى في خدمة وطني و دفع كل خطر يهدده و ان انفد اوامرقائدي الاعلى صاحب الجلالة | |
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atlasonline Colonel-Major
messages : 2010 Inscrit le : 23/05/2010 Localisation : Maroc Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
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Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Mar 17 Mai 2011 - 23:32 | |
| - Citation :
- encore une deception good night
[quote] j espere que ce petit document vous enlevra cette petite deception et vous ferais remonter le moral Yakuza - Spoiler:
j ai cherché un peu sur le forum.j lé pa trouvé et vu qu il y est toujours du doute sur la mission de notre nouvelle gulfstrum je me suis qu il faut que vous la voyez Edit Yak :si deja posté,c´est ce que dit la signature dessus.. |
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Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Mar 11 Oct 2011 - 10:28 | |
| Gulftream: |
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RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 11898 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: ... Dim 15 Jan 2012 - 21:51 | |
| - Fremo a écrit:
Aujourd'hui - Paris Le Bourget
Gulfstream Aerospace V-SP CN-AMS n°5271
Il a arrivé de Rabat à 15h20 et a reparti vers Fès 40min après
Vu son utilisation il est bien amortie c'est déja ca... _________________ | |
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RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 11898 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 13:46 | |
| Dans Flight global de 2013
http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/reports_pdf/world-air-forces-2013-101015.aspx
On parle d'un King Air 200 pour la surveillance ?
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Fremo Administrateur
messages : 24808 Inscrit le : 14/02/2009 Localisation : 7Seas Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 14:18 | |
| C'est le King Air du programme Al Ghait ( Research ), si c'était pour la surveillance, ca sera ( MPA ) _________________ | |
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Fremo Administrateur
messages : 24808 Inscrit le : 14/02/2009 Localisation : 7Seas Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales Mar 31 Déc 2019 - 21:36 | |
| _________________ | |
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| Sujet: Re: Les avions VIP, ECM et missions spéciales | |
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