Actualités du Sahara Marocain

Rappel du premier message :

Que faut il au Maroc pour faire sortir cette rasd de l'UA ? Il faut en finir avec cette situation ridicule

@ FAMAS

No offense.
Pourquoi ne pourrais-je pas comparer le cas des FAR et celle de l'armee serbe au Kosovo?
Je crois qu'il y a assez de similitudes dans les deux cas de figures pour que l'on s'interresse de plus pres a ce conflit.
By the way, dire qu'il y a des similitudes, ne veut pas dire que c'est la meme chose.

@ Yakuza

Donc si je comprends bien, il n'y a pas de quoi stresser?
On est pret pour tous les soulevements populaires et le Sahara n'a aucune chance d'avoir son independance, meme si nos supports diplomatiques nous laissent tomber et changent de camp?
Car en politique, il n'ya quasiment jamais d'alliés permanents, les alliances peuvent changer.
On cite aujourd'hui le Maroc comme un exemple. Mais croyez bien, que si besoin est, on nous decrira demain comme une dictature et une force d'occupation. L'année 2011 est pleine d'exemples étayant cette supposition.

Le Sahara est la blessure du Maroc, et le levier que nos partenaires et nos ennemis utilisent pour nous faire chanter.
Panser cette blessure est dans notre interet.

independance?
ca montre que tu connais ni maroc ni marocains ni ceux qui connaissent bien le Maroc et savent pourquoi ils doivent le supporter dans son droit historique.
bref..

je connais le Maroc et les Marocains, du nord et du sud, wa laho a3lam.
Je soutiens mon pays dans son droit historique a 1000%.
Mais cela ne m'empeche pas de rester prudent et de tirer des conclusions d'autres conflits.
Si referendum il devait y avoir, les Sahraouis voteraient surement pour l'independance, ne nous voilons pas la face.
C'est d'ailleurs une des raisons pourquoi ils l'auront jamais.
Accepter ces realites, est le premier pas pour comprendre et resoudre le conflit.
Enfin, c'est mon humble avis...

y´aura referendum pour autonomie(oui/non) ni plus ni moins

Et vous pensez sérieusement que le référendum autonomie oui/non c'est la panacée et que ca va tout régler ?
Et si les sahraouis refusent?

Vu vos réponses, je me dis que soit je me suis mal exprimer, soit vous m'avez mal compris.
Ou peut-etre que le sujet est tellement sensible, que vous avez les nerfs a fleur de peau ?
Je crois que l'on doit etre capable d'en discuter sereinement, de voir la realité en face et de ne pas faire
l'autruche. C'est la meilleure maniere d'avancer je pense.

Yakuza a écrit:

ils l´ont perdu parceque la russie etait le vrai visé,pas la serbie en soi,comme les revolutions en couleur au voisinage de l´ours,tout pour lui prendre ses ex-alliés et ´affaiblir par consequent.

c´est pourquoi en ce temps,marche avec le courant,siyess/politise,mais adapte toi vite au changement,et ne fait jamais dans l´idealisme rebele.

la strategie otpor est le resultat des theories de gene sharp,le grand pere des revolutions teleguidés.nos 20fifis ainsi que des separatistes ont etudié ses ecrits et tenté le coup vainement,mais la mayonnaise ne prend pas tjs,comme l´a avoué lui meme,ce sont tout les ingredients qu il faut avoir en table,et pas seulement vouloir copier otpor ou autres.

right on yakusa

vipsdesvips a écrit:

Et vous pensez sérieusement que le référendum autonomie oui/non c'est la panacée et que ca va tout régler ?
Et si les sahraouis refusent?

Vu vos réponses, je me dis que soit je me suis mal exprimer, soit vous m'avez mal compris.
Ou peut-etre que le sujet est tellement sensible, que vous avez les nerfs a fleur de peau ?
Je crois que l'on doit etre capable d'en discuter sereinement, de voir la realité en face et de ne pas faire
l'autruche. C'est la meilleure maniere d'avancer je pense.

tu parles de quels sahraouis ? ..

si tu veux voir la realité en face et discuter sereinement comme tu le dis, saches que le sujet du REFERENDUM et surtout le point PRINCIPAL qui est le collége electoral (c'est à dire qui doit voter) a été discuté et analyse des milliers de fois !!!!

ce point "CORPS ELECTORAL" n'a pas été réglé car il y a plus de 100 000 sahraouis, pour la plupart descendants de sahraouis chassés par l'espagne du territoire lors de l'opération Ecouvillon, sont allés vivre dans le Nord du Maroc...

ces 100.000 sahraouis demandent leur droit à VOTER lors d'un referendum , chose que le polisario et l'algérie refusent ...

mélanger le cas de la Serbie et du Maroc, démontre que tu ne connais rien au sujet ou sinon que d'une vision très partielle du sujet !!

c'est çà qui explique la reaction des membres du forum qui connaissent cette affaire à fond

Citation :

Lutte antiterroriste: Un rapport publié à Washington appelle à la fermeture des camps du polisario à Tindouf
Washington - Un rapport sur le terrorisme, rendu public jeudi à Washington, appelle à la fermeture des camps du polisario à Tindouf, devenus le ventre mou de la lutte antiterroriste dans un ensemble géographique qui s'étend du Maghreb à la région du Sahel.


MAP

c'est fini la fête. que chaqu´un rentre chez lui.

Fremo a écrit:

Citation :

Lutte antiterroriste: Un rapport publié à Washington appelle à la fermeture des camps du polisario à Tindouf
Washington - Un rapport sur le terrorisme, rendu public jeudi à Washington, appelle à la fermeture des camps du polisario à Tindouf, devenus le ventre mou de la lutte antiterroriste dans un ensemble géographique qui s'étend du Maghreb à la région du Sahel.


MAP

sa bouge comme j'ai dit avant ,il y a trop de mouvement de la part des americains au maghreb ,paneta n'est pas un type qui aime la stagnation ,il a fait la meme chose au pakistan.le commerce des valises va etre florissant a tindouf j'aimerai bien ouvrir un business de pack and go la ba.

juba2 a écrit:

le commerce des valises va etre florissant a tindouf j'aimerai bien ouvrir un business de pack and go la ba.

Aller circulé tous le monde circule

Citation :

Afrique : un sommet cauchemar pour le Polisario

Le dernier sommet africain d’Addis-Abeba a été un vrai cauchemar pour la direction du Polisario. L’accueil avenant réservé par plusieurs dirigeants africains au chef de la diplomatie marocaine, a été un véritable bouleversement pour la direction du Polisario.
Des sources bien informées dans les camps sahraouis de Tindouf en Algérie, ont assuré à Polisario-confidentiel que les appels solennels lancés par plusieurs chefs d’Etat à Addis-Abeba, en faveur de la réintégration du Maroc dans l’Union Africaine, ont été très mal ressentis par Mohamed Abdelaziz. Le chef du Polisario a été pris de court par le capital sympathie que le Maroc continue de susciter chez la plupart des Etats africains, bien que le royaume ait claqué la porte de l’Organisation africaine depuis 1984. Après le sommet africain, le chef du Polisario aurait confié à des proches qu’à part les dirigeants algériens, il n’a plus beaucoup confiance dans le soutien de nombreux chefs d’Etat africains.

D’après les mêmes sources, la direction du front sahraoui a vécu le sommet africain comme un retournement de situation sans précédent. Surtout que le Polisario s’apprête à un nouveau round de négociations avec le Maroc, supervisé par l’émissaire de l’ONU l’américain Christopher Ross. Un 9ème round que le Polisario aborde avec la plus grande appréhension. Le Polisario qui lutte contre le Maroc pour l’indépendance de la région du Sahara Occidental, est conscient de ses faiblesses.
Ne bénéficiant de la reconnaissance d’aucun membre du Conseil de sécurité, ni d’aucune puissance internationale, il ne peut compter que sur quelques soutiens en Afrique et en Amérique Latine. Une situation peu confortable au moment où la communauté internationale et le Conseil de sécurité interpellent les protagonistes pour se départir des surenchères et négocier dans un esprit de compromis et de réalisme.

http://polisario-confidentiel.com/news/1/203-afrique-un-sommet-cauchemar-pour-le-polisario-.html

Ah ça commence a fondre comme neige au soleil...il doit faire très chaud a Tindouf..

un bon article a lire et arreter de me censurer et effacer mes postes.

Citation :

Regarding the misuse of the term "Saharawi" which tends to dominate this issue: The Reguibat (who trace their origins to Sidi Ahmed al-Rgibi, descendant of Moulay Abdeslam Ben M'chiche, descendant of Moulay Idris) are the largest tribe in the western Sahara and originate from northern Morocco, where Moulay Abdeslam Ben M'chiche remains buried (between Ouazzane and Chefchaouen). Actually, the origins of many other tribes within our Southern Province are also traced further north and vice versa. Throughout the centuries the nomadic and semi-nomadic populations have continually moved up and down from the tip of Africa through the Atlas into the Sahara, across this entire area known for centuries to the West as "Morocco" and to the East as Maghreb. The religious zawiyas (originating from upper Morocco) that sought to spread the message of Islam penetrated far beyond the Sahara into West Africa (for example, the Arma people in West Africa are descendants of the 16th century Moroccan mujahid). The grand imperial cities of Marrakech, Meknes, Fez and Rabat drew peoples from all across our Kingdom in search of knowledge and prosperity.

Unfortunately today the Algerians conspire to manipulate even the semantics of words to give themselves a sense of identity (thus, now many consider themselves Maghrebi without associating that as being Moroccan), all the while they seem to conveniently forget that for 500 years they were detached from our Kingdom and that their lands became home to the Ottomans first and later the French. My question then is: are they really Maghrebi (Moroccan) or the sons of Turks, Slavs ("Balkanians") and Pied-noirs?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zzkJ...entury.jpg

http://thecivilisingmission.fi...ie_fr.jpg


Keep in mind, French-Algeria (in its original state - see map above) was not merely a protectorate, nor even a colony, it was a legal and integral part of France. Let me also remind our "Maghrebi" brothers that 80% of Algeria's Islamic history is found in one, very western, city, Tlemcen - no coincidence then that Tlemcen has historically always been regarded as Moroccan. Indeed, when the French captured the Ottoman regency of Algiers, Moroccans marched in on Tlemcen and declared that their boarders end here (just as they marched in on the Ottomans 300 years before in the same vain).

Speaking of "Sahrawis" (who are every bit Moroccan) as if they are foreign to our geography, history and identity only exemplifies the major Algerian distortions and the sheer and absolute ignorance regarding this issue. To emphasize the point: Guelmim is located outside of the disputed area (straight-lines drawn in the sand by France and Spain) in Northern Morocco (geographically, Guelmim is also part of the western Sahara) and its population are no less "Sahrawi" than those of Laayoune. To further emphasis the point: Due to the the efforts of the Moroccan Army of Liberation (la guerra olvidada for example), Spain were forced to return Tan-tan, Tarfaya and later again Sidi-Ifni. It was only when Spain were seen to be making efforts to legalize their occupation of our Sahara (by falsely claiming that the land was terra nullius prior to their occupation) that Morocco took the matter from the battle-field to the court. Without doing so, Spain might otherwise have secured the land by making it an integral part of Spain (just as the French had earlier made the province of Algiers an integral part of their nation), thus any Moroccan war-effort to liberate the Sahara would have become doubly challenging.

"We have always been Moroccans. My ancestors are buried in several Moroccan cities and one of my ancestors is Moulay Abdeslem Ben Mchich. We fought the French across the entire territory, even as far as northern Mauritania. My father fought in several battles, including the battles of Ahmeim. Our goal was to drive the colonizer out and free the country. We obtained supplies in Essaouira. The currency used in those times was the Hassani. With that, what doubt can there be about our origins? The south had nothing but its livestock to live on. The rest came from the north of Morocco. There have always been commercial and political ties to Morocco. When the Army of Liberation was formed, many in the Reguibat tribe joined it, fighting as far south as Tagal in Mauritania to defend the Moroccan identity of the Sahara. We followed orders from the high command of the Army of Liberation, which was made up of people from the north. Weapons also came from the north. I can tell you that in one way or another, all the Saharawis took part in the fight against the occupier of the Moroccan Sahara." (A testimony from a native of Semara presented to JPRS Reports)

The "western" Sahara is a name corresponding to the geographic reality of the territory in regard to the entire Sahara (which for the record, spreads from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea). 90% of Algerian territory is engulfed by the Sahara. Moreover, "Mauritania" is also part of the western Sahara and it's no coincidence that the colonialists established independence for this "Sahrawi" state with a name formerly associated with northern Morocco (Ancient Mauretania). My question: why not Numidia or the Sahrawi Islamic Republic? smilies/wink.gif

The term Sahrawi was very much a literal expression used to describe all those who lived in the Sahara. Today, for various reasons, it holds a more specific connation, however, so too does the word "Jebli" (one of the Mountain), which is used to describe a specific group of Moroccan people who live in our northern-most mountains. You simply cannot speak of (Moroccan) "Sahrawis" and Moroccans as two discrete entities: one is a national classification, the other a relatively recent internal classification. If some brainwashed or opportunist separatists falsely claim they have no ties to Morocco and that they are of Yemeni descent then let me remind you and them that Yemen still exists on the world map and that they are more than welcome to leave the refuge of our Kingdom, home to the INDIGENOUS MOROCCAN people and return to the desert of Arabia from whence they came! Of course, we know their motives well: Algerian oil money, power, ideology (indoctrination)... in fact many of these dissidents were first loyal to their Spanish occupiers - "Harkis" as Algerians would call them; although I'm all too aware that today, some dissidents are now sadly a natural product of a 35-year old war environment. Nonetheless, a war created and sustained by traitors and the DRS.

"I want to liberate Sahrawis from separatists' servitude" - Mustapha Salma

"The identity label ‘Sahrawi’ is a matter of great legal and political contention. Literally, the term sahrawi in Arabic refers to any inhabitant of the desert (sahra’). However, the term is most frequently used in the West as an umbrella term to refer to those individuals who belong to specific tribes which have traditionally lived and moved throughout the territory currently defined as the Western Sahara. This usage is relatively recent, emerging towards the end of the Spanish colonial presence in the territory. In the 1970s, the term Sahrawi was increasingly mobilised (and arguably monopolised) by the Polisario Front as a political unifier and identifier for the multiple tribes which moved in and around the territory. It is, as a result, intimately related to this group’s political struggles. Given that tribal identification is the primary basis for the referendum for self-determination designed to resolve the conflict over the Western Sahara, precisely which tribes and individuals are defined as ‘Sahrawi’ rather than ‘Moroccan’ or ‘Mauritanian’ is politically and legally highly significant."

The primary question thus becomes, was the land in question part of our Kingdom? Most definitely! All the evidence is there, although we don't expect those who divided us in the first place and further created artificial entities around us to acknowledge Islamic definitions of sovereignty. The truth is, this artificial conflict in our Southern Province was put together in the 1970s (in a cold-war context) by the Algerian junta (the heirs of colonialism and the benefactors of French endeavours; and long after the humiliation they suffered during the Sand War smilies/wink.gif) in order to keep Morocco from reclaiming the lands illegally annexed from our Kingdom. With the support of those who manufactured them into existence and with the support of those who played a leading role in turning Algeria over to the Communists and with the support of those who kept the DRS and FLN in power during their civil war, Algeria to this day continues to illegally occupy our land.

"In order to secure Touat and tie it directly to Algeria the French army proceeded to occupy several points ... The three oases in the Guir-Zousfana triangle, Bechar, Kenadsa, and Ouakda, were given the unconditional right to choose either nationality ... The three qsar-s named in the Protocol all opted for Moroccan nationality" (Resistance in the Desert: Moroccan Responses to French Imperialism)

"Algeria today has stood by the claims made by France during the years 1956-1962; and, fully in accordance with the policy statement relating to colonial boundaries that was put forth by the Organization of African Unity, has stated simply that Algeria's rightful boundaries are those that were inherited from the French colonial regime. Insofar as the portion of the common frontier region that is being examined here is concerned -- the Guir-Zousfana river basin area -- the Algerian criterion for legitimacy is not well founded. It can be proven that during the period 1956-1962 the French presented a case for their claim that was distorted by their failure to make known some of the most relevant documentation bearing on the issue. ... Morocco today can legitimately claim the right to a territorial boundary at the 1901 line." (Morocco's Boundary in the Guir-Zousfana River Basin, African Historical Studies)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1xGzcPNgHE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjsnqZaf4Dw

My final word: If the treacherous socialist revolutionaries of Algiers wish for North Africa to remain divided, then so be it; but be very sure, we will never give up on our legitimate fight for decolonization: Tindouf, Bechar, Touat, Ceuta, Melilia were all part of the our Kingdom and were unlawfully stolen by the colonial powers. General Assembly resolution No 1514 (XV), paragraph 6 states: "Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes of the Charter of the United Nations."

"In itself, allegiance to the sovereign is of a political and constitutional character, as in certain countries that were subject to a military feudal system. Furthermore, at the time of colonization by Spain, that is to say towards the end of the nineteenth century, the Sultan combined in his person the legislative and executive powers, to which was added the spiritual power. He exercised those powers by means of dahirs, which were issued - a significant fact - under his sole signature. Does this not mean that the Sultan at that time personified the State, all of whose powers he exercised? Therefore allegiance to the Sultan, or sovereign, was equivalent to allegiance to the State. This entails acknowledging that the legal ties between Morocco and Western Sahara recognized by the Court took the form of political ties, indeed ties of sovereignty.

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/61/6205.pdf

http://moroccoboard.com/viewpoint/68-hassan-massiki/5558-moroccos-autonomy-plan-for-western-sahara-could-be-key-to-algerias-mediation-efforts-in-mali#comments

pas censure,si pas en citations,tout charabia,ca sera spprimé sans preavis,on va pas vous l´apprendre pour l´eternité.

Yakuza a écrit:

pas censure,si pas en citations,tout charabia,ca sera spprimé sans preavis,on va pas vous l´apprendre pour l´eternité.

understood

Polisario : Fuite de documents compromettants pour des marocains indépendantistes





http://www.emarrakech.info/Polisario-Fuite-de-documents-compromettants-pour-des-marocains-independantistes_a60046.html

Lol j’espère que notre DST sera à la hauteur

Une traduction svp ?

butters a écrit:

Une traduction svp ?

Clique sur le lien en bas des photos

YASSINE a écrit:

Lol j’espère que notre DST sera à la hauteur

non yassine, la dst oui pour les preuves et manoeuvres mais c 'est la justice de trancher pour trahison
car la ce n ai plus une expression d opinion mais une organisation paye par un tier exterieur pour destbiliser une region
ni les droit de l homme ni watch watch ne peut leur venir en aide

sorius a écrit:

YASSINE a écrit:

Lol j’espère que notre DST sera à la hauteur

non yassine, la dst oui pour les preuves et manoeuvres mais c 'est la justice de trancher pour trahison
car la ce n ai plus une expression d opinion mais une organisation paye par un tier exterieur pour destbiliser une region
ni les droit de l homme ni watch watch ne peut leur venir en aide

la il ne faut pas lacher, espionage est le mot d'ordre et le nouveau ministre de justice doit faire son travaille.la aucun pays democratique de l'occident a l'orient va lever le doigt et les defendre car tous sans exception ils n'ont pas de pitie pour les espions,

linust a écrit:

ses origines l'ont trahi

qu'est ce qui raconte Msahet-el-Walidine ?