Actualités au Moyen Orient

Rappel du premier message :

deverouillé (il ne l´etait pas en fait..l´autre partie a ete renommée autrement)

Fahed64 a écrit:

En quoi les brigades Al Qassam sont des terroristes ?

Je croyais être le seul mais c'est rassurant ...
C'est la logique (propagande pour mieux dire) occidental pro-sioniste je pense qui affecte un peu notre raisonnement de cette manière. Et selon cette même logique, alors le grand AbdelKarim El Khattabi aurait été classifié plus dangereux que Ben Laden et Carlos réunis s'il était la de nos jours (Allah yrehmou).
Une chose est sure, maintenant Tsahal y réfléchira à deux fois avant d'engager ses apaches et ses cobras en toute impunités au dessus du territoire ghazaoui.

Justement j'ai posté cette info (qui n'a pas 0 value, c'est Jane's quand même); pour montrer qu'il menace l'Egypte en 1er lieu et non Israël.

Au pire, ils auraient pu évité de donner des noms et rester vague.

Le terme "terroriste" est une notion subjective, il dépend du camp où tu te positionnes.

Par ailleurs, je condamne les propos du Hamas, comment ignorer les sacrifices du peuple et de l'Armée Égyptienne pour le peuple Palestinien (historiquement parlant) ?

Le Hamas ferait mieux de s'occuper de ses affaires et ne pas créer des zones instables dans le Sinaï.

Inanç a écrit:

Justement j'ai posté cette info (qui n'a pas 0 value, c'est Jane's quand même); pour montrer qu'il menace l'Egypte en 1er lieu et non Israël.

Au pire, ils auraient pu évité de donner des noms et rester vague.

Le terme "terroriste" est une notion subjective, il dépend du camp où tu te positionnes.

Par ailleurs, je condamne les propos du Hamas, comment ignorer les sacrifices du peuple et de l'Armée Égyptienne pour le peuple Palestinien (historiquement parlant) ?

Le Hamas ferait mieux de s'occuper de ses affaires et ne pas créer des zones instables dans le Sinaï.

Mais personne ne remet en question la fiabilité de ta source Inanç !
Mais a t'on déja vu une source occidentale montrer une quelconque sympathie envers le Hamas et ses fractions ? Je ne pense pas (de plus que c'est Janes, donc la qualité des informations est supérieur, mais ses analyses ne sont point objectif). Ce que je critiquais, était la considération du Hamas (mouvement et combattants de libération de la Palestine) comme un mouvement terroriste ? Si c'est le cas, c'est que la propagande sioniste à atteint ses objectifs.

Pour en revenir à ce que l'Egypte a fait pour la Palestine, alors oui il ne faut pas qu'ils oublient ! Mais est ce une excuse pour se laisser intimider par les tambours de guerre égyptien, ou même de s'incliner devant une Egypte qui est des plus hostile envers eux désormais avec le nouveau régime ? Le moyen orient est l'une des régions les plus dynamique au monde et pour y survivre il faut suivre le rythme, et je pense que c'est ce que le Hamas est entrain de faire. Est ce qu'il faut pour autant considérer l'Egypte comme un ennemi ? Non, et ceci n'est pas une excuse non plus pour les survols et violations des appareils de l'armée de l'air égyptienne ...

Je ne pense pas qu'un mouvement terroriste a le droit de semer la zizanie dans un pays aussi puissant que l'Egypte sans être puni ! L'Armée Égyptienne n'est pas une boite qui fabrique des jeans ... mais une puissante armée avec une puissante appareil de renseignement ... il faut pas que ca se laisse intimider par ces gremlins

Tout a fait. L'armee egyptienne est l'une des plus puisantes armees de la region, mais seulement quand cette derniere confronte des pauvres civiles. Hamas n'aura pas de souci si cette armee (qui n'as jamais gagne une guerre) l'attaque. Sisi est con mais pas au point d'attaquer un mouvement qui represente la creme de la resistance en palestine sachant que le majorite des musulmans sur terre la supportent a 100%.

ramm a écrit:

Tout a fait. L'armee egyptienne est l'une des plus puisantes armees de la region, mais seulement quand cette derniere confronte des pauvres civiles. Hamas n'aura pas de souci si cette armee (qui n'as jamais gagne une guerre) l'attaque. Sisi est con mais pas au point d'attaquer un mouvement qui represente la creme de la resistance en palestine sachant que le majorite des musulmans sur terre la supportent a 100%.

Donc 1 600 000 0000 de musulmans ???????

ramm a écrit:

Tout a fait. L'armee egyptienne est l'une des plus puisantes armees de la region, mais seulement quand cette derniere confronte des pauvres civiles. Hamas n'aura pas de souci si cette armee (qui n'as jamais gagne une guerre) l'attaque. Sisi est con mais pas au point d'attaquer un mouvement qui represente la creme de la resistance en palestine sachant que le majorite des musulmans sur terre la supportent a 100%.

Les musulmans les supportent dans leur combat contre les sionistes et non dans l'absolue.

Quand à l'armée Egyptienne comme tout armée assistée ... peut pas faire grand chose apart un show de gadgets qu'ils recoivent de gauche et de droite.

Citation :

Turkey, Saudi Arabia Ratify Defense Industry Cooperation Accord

Sep. 18, 2013 - 04:12PM |
By BURAK EGE BEKDIL | Comments



ANKARA — Despite their differences over the July coup in Egypt, Turkey and Saudi Arabia have ratified a defense industry cooperation agreement..

According to the agreement, which took effect Sept. 11, Turkey and Saudi Arabia “aim to increase cooperation in the defense industry by improving the industry capabilities of both countries through more effective collaboration on the development, production and procurement of goods and services in the defense industry and the related technical and logistical support fields.”

The agreement had been signed in May and was pending parliamentary approval.

The agreement will remain in force for five years and it should be extended automatically for successive one-year periods. Last year, the Turkish parliament also approved a deal with Saudi Arabia regarding cooperation in the training of military personnel.

On a political level, Turkey and Saudi Arabia have cooperated to support the rebels fighting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime, which both countries said must be removed. But Ankara and Riyadh differ in their Egypt policies. Turkey has been a fierce opponent of the military coup that ousted Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi in July, while the Saudi kingdom has been supporting the military-backed government there.

Industry experts here say the cooperation accord between Turkey and Saudi Arabia could facilitate Turkey’s future exports of naval vessels, assault boats, armored vehicles and unmanned aerial vehicles to Saudi Arabia. The Arab kingdom also has shown an interest in the Altay, Turkey’s first indigenous new-generation battle tank now in the prototype production and testing stage.

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130918/DEFREG04/309180029/Turkey-Saudi-Arabia-Ratify-Defense-Industry-Cooperation-Accord

Hmm, le gvt ne parle plus de l'Egypte maintenant, même si le parti des FM est fermé.

Bonne décision, les intérêts suprêmes de la Nation sont plus importants que Morsi.

L'AKP a bien fait (je l'avais dit qu'ils allaient abandonner cette politique intenable et isolante).

Business is business

Citation :

How 5 Countries Could Become 14
Slowly, the map of the Middle East could be redrawn.



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/29/sunday-review/how-5-countries-could-become-14.html?smid=fb-share&_r=2&

A mediter:study:  

Y'en a qui sont pas happy vace le discours politique de Rohani et pleure le départ de leur copain Najad, on revient donc aux vielles méthodes pour faire vivre la braise :

Citation :

Iranian cyber warfare commander shot dead in suspected assassination

Le rôle d'Hakan Fidan du MIT (chef des services secrets turcs) sur le rôle qu'il joue en Syrie et au Moyen-Orient.

Il serait l'architecte de la politique étrangère turque dans la région avec Davutoglu, c'est un homme craint par les Usa, Israël et l'Iran pour son rôle dans plusieurs affaires dont la transmission de donné sensible aux Iraniens en contre partie d'autres informations secrètes (Opportunisme).

L'ancien ambassadeur Jeffrey pense qu'il (Usa) faut travailler avec Hakan Fidan, mais ne doit pas lui faire confiance les yeux fermés..

Citation :

Turkey's Spymaster Plots Own Course on Syria



Hakan Fidan Takes Independent Tack in Wake of Arab Spring

On a rainy May day, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan led two of his closest advisers into the Oval Office for what both sides knew would be a difficult meeting.

It was the first face-to-face between Mr. Erdogan and President Barack Obama in almost a year. Mr. Obama delivered what U.S. officials describe as an unusually blunt message: The U.S. believed Turkey was letting arms and fighters flow into Syria indiscriminately and sometimes to the wrong rebels, including anti-Western jihadists.

Seated at Mr. Erdogan's side was the man at the center of what caused the U.S.'s unease, Hakan Fidan, Turkey's powerful spymaster and a driving force behind its efforts to supply the rebels and topple Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

In the wake of the Arab Spring uprisings, Mr. Fidan, little known outside of the Middle East, has emerged as a key architect of a Turkish regional-security strategy that has tilted the interests of the longtime U.S. ally in ways sometimes counter to those of the U.S.

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"Hakan Fidan is the face of the new Middle East," says James Jeffrey, who recently served as U.S. ambassador in Turkey and Iraq. "We need to work with him because he can get the job done," he says. "But we shouldn't assume he is a knee-jerk friend of the United States, because he is not."

Mr. Fidan is one of three spy chiefs jostling to help their countries fill a leadership vacuum created by the upheaval and by America's tentative approach to much of the region.

One of his counterparts is Prince Bandar bin Sultan al-Saud, Saudi Arabia's intelligence chief, who has joined forces with the Central Intelligence Agency in Syria but who has complicated U.S. policy in Egypt by supporting a military takeover there. The other is Iran's Maj. Gen. Qasem Soleimani, commander-in-chief of the Quds Forces, the branch of the elite Revolutionary Guard Corps that operates outside of Iran and whose direct military support for Mr. Assad has helped keep him in power.

Mr. Fidan's rise to prominence has accompanied a notable erosion in U.S. influence over Turkey. Washington long had cozy relations with Turkey's military, the second-largest army in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. But Turkey's generals are now subservient to Mr. Erdogan and his closest advisers, Mr. Fidan and Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who are using the Arab Spring to shift Turkey's focus toward expanding its regional leadership, say current and former U.S. officials.



Mr. Fidan, 45 years old, didn't respond to requests for an interview. Mr. Erdogan's office declined to elaborate on his relationship with Mr. Fidan.

At the White House meeting, the Turks pushed back at the suggestion that they were aiding radicals and sought to enlist the U.S. to aggressively arm the opposition, the U.S. officials briefed on the discussions say. Turkish officials this year have used meetings like this to tell the Obama administration that its insistence on a smaller-scale effort to arm the opposition hobbled the drive to unseat Mr. Assad, Turkish and U.S. officials say.

Mr. Fidan is the prime minister's chief implementer.

Since he took over Turkey's national-intelligence apparatus, the Milli Istihbarat Teskilati, or MIT, in 2010, Mr. Fidan has shifted the agency's focus to match Mr. Erdogan's.

His growing role has met a mixture of alarm, suspicion and grudging respect in Washington, where officials see him as a reliable surrogate for Mr. Erdogan in dealing with broader regional issues—the futures of Egypt, Libya and Syria, among them—that the Arab Spring has brought to the bilateral table.

Mr. Fidan raised concerns three years ago, senior U.S. officials say, when he rattled Turkey's allies by allegedly passing to Iran sensitive intelligence collected by the U.S. and Israel.

More recently, Turkey's Syria approach, carried out by Mr. Fidan, has put it at odds with the U.S. Both countries want Mr. Assad gone. But Turkish officials have told the Americans they see an aggressive international arming effort as the best way. The cautious U.S. approach reflects the priority it places on ensuring that arms don't go to the jihadi groups that many U.S. officials see as a bigger threat to American interests than Mr. Assad.

U.S. intelligence agencies believe Mr. Fidan doesn't aim to undercut the U.S. but to advance Mr. Erdogan's interests. In recent months, as radical Islamists expanded into northern Syria along the Turkish border, Turkish officials have begun to recalibrate their policy—concerned not about U.S. complaints but about the threat to Turkey's security, say U.S. and Turkish officials.



There is no doubt in Turkey where the spymaster stands. Mr. Fidan is "the No. 2 man in Turkey," says Emre Uslu, a Turkish intelligence analyst who writes for a conservative daily. "He's much more powerful than any minister and much more powerful than President Abdullah Gul."

Still, he cuts a modest figure. Current and former Turkish officials describe him as gentle and unpretentious. In U.S. meetings, he wears dark suits and is soft-spoken, say U.S. officials who have met him repeatedly and contrast him with Prince Bandar, the swashbuckling Saudi intelligence chief.

"He's not Bandar," one of the officials says. "No big cigars, no fancy suits, no dark glasses. He's not flamboyant."

Mr. Fidan's ascension is remarkable in part because he is a former noncommissioned officer in the Turkish military, a class that usually doesn't advance to prominent roles in the armed forces, business or government.

Mr. Fidan earned a bachelor of science degree in government and politics from the European division of the University of Maryland University College and a doctorate in political science from Ankara's elite Bilkent University. In 2003, he was appointed to head Turkey's international-development agency.

He joined Mr. Erdogan's office as a foreign-policy adviser in 2007. Three years later, he was head of intelligence.

"He is my secret keeper. He is the state's secret keeper," Mr. Erdogan said of his intelligence chief in 2012 in comments to reporters.

Mr. Fidan's rise at Mr. Erdogan's side has been met with some concern in Washington and Israel because of his role in shaping Iran policy. One senior Israeli official says it became clear to Israel that Mr. Fidan was "not an enemy of Iran." And mistrust already marked relations between the U.S. and Turkish intelligence agencies. The CIA spies on Turkey and the MIT runs an aggressive counterintelligence campaign against the CIA, say current and former U.S. officials.

The tension was aggravated in 2010 when the CIA began to suspect the MIT under Mr. Fidan of passing intelligence to Iran.

At the time, Mr. Erdogan was trying to improve ties with Tehran, a central plank of Ankara's "zero problems with neighbors" policy. U.S. officials believe the MIT under Mr. Fidan passed several pieces of intelligence to Iran, including classified U.S. assessments about the Iranian government, say current and former senior U.S. and Middle Eastern officials.

U.S. officials say they don't know why Mr. Fidan allegedly shared the intelligence, but suspect his goal was relationship-building. After the Arab Spring heightened tensions, Mr. Erdogan pulled back from his embrace of Tehran, at which point U.S. officials believe Mr. Fidan did so, too.

Officials at the MIT and Turkey's foreign ministry declined to comment on the allegations.

In 2012, Mr. Fidan began expanding the MIT's power by taking control of Turkey's once-dominant military-intelligence service. Many top generals with close ties to the U.S. were jailed as part of a mass trial and convicted this year of plotting to topple Mr. Erdogan's government. At the Pentagon, the jail sentences were seen as the coup de grace for the military's status within the Turkish system.

Mr. Fidan's anti-Assad campaign harks to August 2011, when Mr. Erdogan called for Mr. Assad to step down. Mr. Fidan later started directing a secret effort to bolster rebel capabilities by allowing arms, money and logistical support to funnel into northern Syria—including arms from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Gulf allies—current and former U.S. officials say.

Mr. Erdogan wanted to remove Mr. Assad not only to replace a hostile regime on Turkey's borders but also to scuttle the prospect of a Kurdish state emerging from Syria's oil-rich northeast, political analysts say.

Providing aid through the MIT, a decision that came in early 2012, ensured Mr. Erdogan's office had control over the effort and that it would be relatively invisible, say current and former U.S. officials.

Syrian opposition leaders, American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats who worked with Mr. Fidan say the MIT acted like a "traffic cop" that arranged weapons drops and let convoys through checkpoints along Turkey's 565-mile border with Syria.

Some moderate Syrian opposition leaders say they immediately saw that arms shipments bypassed them and went to groups linked to the Muslim Brotherhood. Mr. Erdogan's Islamist-rooted Justice and Development Party has supported Muslim Brotherhood movements across the region.

Syrian Kurdish leaders, meanwhile, charge that Ankara allowed arms and support to reach radical groups that could check the expanding power of Kurdish militia aligned with Turkey's militant Kurdistan Workers' Party.

Turkish border guards repeatedly let groups of radical fighters cross into Syria to fight Kurdish brigades, says Salih Muslim, co-chairman of the Democratic Union of Syria, Turkey's most powerful Kurdish party. He says Turkish ambulances near the border picked up wounded fighters from Jabhat al Nusra, an anti-Assad group linked to al Qaeda. Turkish officials deny those claims.

Opposition lawmakers from the border province of Hatay say Turkish authorities transported Islamist fighters to frontier villages and let fighter-filled planes land at Hatay airport. Turkish officials deny both allegations.

Mehmet Ali Ediboglu, a lawmaker for Hatay's largest city, Antakya, and a member of the parliament's foreign-relations committee, says he followed a convoy of more than 50 buses carrying radical fighters and accompanied by 10 police vehicles to the border village of Guvecci. "This was just one incident of many," he says. Voters in his district strongly oppose Turkish support for the Syrian opposition. Turkish officials deny Mr. Ediboglu's account.

In meetings with American officials and Syrian opposition leaders, Turkish officials said the threat posed by Jabhat al Nusra, the anti-Assad group, could be dealt with later, say U.S. officials and Syrian opposition leaders.

The U.S. added Nusra to its terror list in December, in part to send a message to Ankara about the need to more tightly control the arms flow, say officials involved in the internal discussions.

The May 2013 White House encounter came at a time when Mr. Obama had grown increasingly uncomfortable with the Turkish leader's policies relating to Syria, Israel and press freedoms, say current and former U.S. officials.

Mr. Obama told the Turkish leaders he wanted a close relationship, but he voiced concerns about Turkey's approach to arming the opposition. The goal was to convince the Turks that "not all fighters are good fighters" and that the Islamist threat could harm the wider region, says a senior U.S. official.

This year, Turkey has dialed back on its arming efforts as it begins to worry that the influence of extremist rebel groups in Syria might bleed back into Turkey. At Hatay airport, the alleged way station for foreign fighters headed to Syria, the flow has markedly decreased, says a representative of a service company working at the airport.

In September, Turkey temporarily shut part of its border after fighting erupted between moderate Syrian rebels and an Iraqi al Qaeda outfit, the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham. Turkish President Gul warned that "radical groups are a big worry when it comes to our security."

In recent months, Turkish officials have told U.S. counterparts that they believe the lack of American support for the opposition has fueled extremism because front-line brigades believe the West has abandoned them, say U.S. and Turkish officials involved in the discussions.

In September, Mr. Davutoglu, the foreign minister, met Secretary of State John Kerry, telling him Turkey was concerned about extremists along the Syrian border, say U.S. and Turkish officials. The Turks wanted Mr. Kerry to affirm that the U.S. remained committed to the Syrian opposition, say U.S. officials.

Mr. Kerry told Turkish officials the U.S. was committed but made clear, a senior administration official says of the Turkish leaders, that "they need to be supportive of the right people."

Also in September, Mr. Fidan met with CIA Director John Brennan and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, say Turkish and U.S. officials, who decline to say what was discussed.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official says Mr. Fidan has built strong relationships with many of his international counterparts. At the same time, a current U.S. intelligence official says, it is clear "we look at the world through different lenses."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303643304579107373585228330.html

Hakan Fidan est un homme de confiance de RTE, très proche.

Il a servi 15 ans dans les TSK avant de les quitter.

Sur le plan intérieur, il nettoie l'administration des Gulenistes (pour ça que dans une certaine presse, il est constamment critiqué).
Artisan des négociations avec le PKK.

Sur le plan extérieur, très impliqué dans le soutien à la rébellion Syrienne.

Je trouve pour ma part que ses investissements n'ont pas encore porté leurs fruits.

Il n'a que 48 ans, peut-être sera-t-il PM un jour, who knows ?

Citation :

L'Arabie Saoudite refuse d'entrer au Conseil de sécurité

Ryad dénonce un système inégalitaire et réclame une réforme de cette structure onusienne composée de cinq membres permanents et dix non-permanents.
L’Arabie Saoudite a refusé vendredi d’entrer au Conseil de sécurité de l’ONU, pour protester contre «l’impuissance» de cette instance et son échec à régler les conflits au Proche-Orient, en particulier la crise syrienne.
Dans un communiqué, le ministère des Affaires étrangères de ce poids lourd du monde arabe, principal soutien de l’opposition au régime du président Bachar Al-Assad, fustige la politique de «deux poids, deux mesures» du Conseil de sécurité à l’égard des crises au Proche-Orient. «L’Arabie Saoudite (...) n’a pas d’autre option que de refuser de devenir membre du Conseil de sécurité jusqu’à ce que ce dernier soit réformé et qu’on lui donne les moyens d’accomplir son devoir et d’assumer ses responsabilités pour préserver la paix et la sécurité dans le monde», affirme le communiqué.

Cette décision «est tout à fait inattendue, nous avons tous dû vérifier dans l’historique du Conseil pour trouver un précédent et il n’y en a pas», a déclaré un diplomate à New York. La France a dit partager la «frustration» de l’Arabie saoudite, tandis que la Russie a critiqué Ryad, s’interrogeant sur les raisons «étranges» du refus saoudien. La Turquie a estimé pour sa part que la décision saoudienne faisait «perdre de sa crédibilité» à l’ONU.

Le royaume, premier exportateur mondial de pétrole, avait été élu jeudi, pour la première fois, membre non permanent du Conseil de sécurité de l’ONU, en même temps que le Tchad, le Chili, le Nigeria et la Lituanie. Leur mandat de deux ans doit débuter le 1er janvier 2014.

Le ministère saoudien estime que le fait «de permettre au régime en place en Syrie de tuer son peuple et de le brûler à l’arme chimique au vu et au su du monde entier sans sanctions dissuasives est une preuve claire de l’impuissance du Conseil de sécurité à accomplir son devoir et à assumer ses responsabilités». Le communiqué souligne en outre que «la question palestinienne demeure depuis soixante-cinq ans sans règlement».

Il déplore que le Conseil ait «échoué» à débarrasser le Proche-Orient des armes de destruction massive, «en raison de son incapacité à soumettre les programmes nucléaires de tous les pays de la région sans exception à la surveillance et aux inspections internationales», dans une allusion à Israël, ou en s’opposant «aux tentatives de tout pays de la région de posséder l’arme nucléaire», dans une référence à l’Iran.

Lors de la session de l’Assemblée générale de l’ONU fin septembre, le ministre saoudien des Affaires étrangères Saoud al-Fayçal avait déjà refusé de s’exprimer à la tribune pour protester contre l’inertie du Conseil en Syrie et dans les Territoires palestiniens. Selon un diplomate occidental, «les Saoudiens ont subi un double choc : les Etats-Unis ont refusé d’agir militairement en Syrie et tout le monde a courtisé (Hassan) Rohani», le nouveau président iranien.

source

audelà du contenu ...
remarquez  les mouvements de son corps..sa lecture politique devient ainsi religieuse



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