Chasseurs chinois

Citation :

China readies J-10A fighter for export


Hong Kong, China — China is aiming at a substantial share of the international market for third-generation fighter aircraft, with a particular eye on oil-rich third-world countries as part of its arms-for-oil strategy. This was evidenced by the high-profile display of its J-10A fighter at the 2008 Zhuhai Air Show last November.
Chinese experts were observed giving exhaustive information on the J-10A to military delegations from Angola, Nigeria and Venezuela at the air show. Venezuela seemed most interested in the aircraft.
The first foreign buyer of the J-10A will be Pakistan, a source from the Chinese aviation industry said. In March, Pakistan’s Air Chief Marshall Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed confirmed that a deal with China had been reached, and the aircraft would be delivered in 2014 and 2015. The version for Pakistan will be called the FC-20.
However, there is an issue with the engine on this aircraft. The J-10A is currently equipped with Russian-made AL-31F aviation engines. It is unclear whether Russia will permit China to install these engines on its aircraft and then export them to Pakistan. Such a move would have not only economic but also political repercussions, considering that Pakistan’s rival, India, is a major purchaser of Russian arms.
For this reason, the export version of the J-10A fighter is still under design. Both the engine and the weapon systems on board will be different from the domestic version, according to the source from the Chinese aviation industry.
India has been using the Russian AL-31FP engine extensively in its fighter aircraft. If China exports large numbers of J-10P/FC-20 fighters outfitted with Russian engines to Pakistan, India will be much more concerned over this deal than with China’s earlier export of JF-17 2.5-generation fighters to Pakistan. As a third-generation combat aircraft, the J-10A will pose a real threat to the Indian Air Force.
With this concern, India sent a strong delegation to the Zhuhai Air Show to expand its contacts with the Chinese, led by its air chief of staff. The Indian Air Force’s aerobatics demonstration team also put on a performance at this event.
At the Singapore Air Show earlier last year, Indian Air Chief Marshall Fali Homi Major had already carefully inspected the simulation cockpit of the JF-17, which is being jointly developed by China and Pakistan. His trip to Zhuhai was to examine the J-10A/ FC-20 fighter.
In contrast to India’s increased interest in engaging with China, Russia sent a much smaller delegation than usual to Zhuhai. For the first time, Russia did not exhibit any combat aircraft or radar systems at the air show. Some representatives of Russian enterprises even cancelled their planned trips to China at the last minute.
One member of the Russian military delegation described China-Russian arms trade as being in a long and drawn-out “winter.” A representative of Rosoboronexport, the agency that handles exports of Russian defense equipment, declined to comment on China’s possible export of J-10A fighters equipped with Russian AL-31F engines.
China did have its own indigenous engine on display at the show, the Taihang turbofan engine, with a thrust power of 13,200 kilograms – although some experts say it is only 12,800 kilograms. The Taihang’s exterior design and modular structure, as well as the processing and polishing technologies of the core machine and engine blades, seem to be an improvement over China’s previous aviation engines, but it is still far behind similar systems from Russia and Western countries.
Representatives of China’s Liming Motor Corporation refused to answer questions about the engine’s performance features. It is unclear why China decided to introduce this engine to the international market when it has not elected to use it on its own J-10 fighters.
A Chinese military source disclosed that China has been promoting the J-10A to Egypt, but it appears that no substantial negotiations have yet taken place. An authoritative source from the Russian military industry has said that Russia will not allow China to use its engines in exported planes if it perceives such sales as having a negative impact on Russia’s own export market. Egypt was once a major client of Russian arms, though it now buys little other than spare parts.
Pakistan, on the other hand, is not a traditional client of Russian aircraft. Therefore Russia allowed its engines to be used on the JF-17 fighters China is developing with Pakistan. The same arrangement may therefore hold for the J-10A.
The basic price for the J-10A is about US$29.3 million, according to the Chinese source. Considering that China aims to sell this fighter primarily to oil-producing countries – and is prepared to trade it for oil and other natural resources – it could be an attractive option for such countries.
A general assessment of the export version of the J-10A fighter can conclude that its engine has less thrust than the F-16 Block 52, while its radar system is more or less on a par with the Zhuk-ME multifunction radar on the Russian MiG-29 SMT. This is because Russia’s Phazotron Design Bureau exported to China three sets of its Zemchung multirole radar systems after 2001, allowing China to come up with its own version of the Zhuk-ME radar. This radar has a detection range of 120 kilometers for 5m2 aerial targets and can attack four targets in the air simultaneously.
In terms of the diversity and performance of its weapon systems, especially long-range attack weapons, the J-10A lags far behind the F-16 Block 52. The-air-to-air missiles loaded on the J-10A fighter at the Zhuhai exhibition were SD-10A AAMs with compound hardpoints. The SD-10A is a medium-range active radar-guided air-to-air missile upgraded from the SD-10, with its maximum range extended to 70 kilometers. Its length is 3.9 meters, diameter 203 millimeters, weight 198 kilograms, and maximum speed Mach 5.
The PL-12 air-to-air missiles currently in service in the PLA Air Force have undergone similar upgrading. Short-range missiles include the new-generation PL-5EII and PL-9C. The PL-5EII is equipped with a multichannel infrared seeker, the latest laser proximity fuse, and a rocket motor with a non-smoke propellant.
The air-to-ground weapons on the J-10A mainly include the LT-2 laser-guided bomb and the FT series of global positioning system-guided bombs. In recent years China has been imitating U.S. aviation combat weapons, a trend that is reflected in the weapon platforms on the J-10A, including its imitation U.S. joint direct attack munition serial bombs.
At the most recent Zhuhai show, China put on open display its FT-5 GPS-guided bomb. The FT-1 and FT-3 500/250-kilogram-class GPS-guided bombs were on display at the previous show in 2006. China also showed off its 500-kilogram-class FT-2 with gliding fins added. The FT-2 has an effective range of 15-90 kilometers, a circular error probability of 20 meters and an air-dropping altitude of 3,000 to 12,000 meters.
The FT-5 small-diameter bomb copies the latest design of the U.S. military. A designer of the system said that the FT-5’s warhead has a weight of 35 kilograms and a circular error probability of 15 meters. It was developed mainly for unmanned aerial vehicles. The effective range of the FT-5 is 2-5 kilometers when launched from a UAV and 3-35 kilometers when launched from a J-10A.
China has also developed the LT-3 GPS+ terminal laser-guided air-to-ground missile for the J-10A, which is very similar in structure to the U.S. Army’s JDAM+ laser-guided bomb.
These imitations provide evidence that the Chinese military has been tracking U.S. technology, viewing the United States as both a presumed enemy and a competitor in the arms export market. Of course China’s imitations are not limited to U.S. military equipment, but it is certainly learning from U.S. technology as well as military combat doctrines.
China is now paying close attention to the development of anti-GPS-jamming multiple-guidance weapons. Its Sekong Company has developed a 570-kilogram-class guided bomb based on the Russian Krasnopole laser-guided projectile’s seeker technology. China plans to promote this guided bomb along with the J-10A. A designer says that this bomb has a circular error probability of 3.1 meters and an air-release altitude of 500-10,000 meters.
It is not clear whether the LT-3 has ever been test-fired, as China did not show video footage of this guided bomb under test.
As for anti-ship weapons, Chinese promoters of the J-10A claim that the fighter can carry 75-kilometer-range new-generation C-705 anti-ship missiles or C-802A anti-ship missiles with a range close to 250 kilometers. The C-705 was also on exhibit for the first time. The C-705 is a modified version of the C-704, with a turbojet engine and two flight fins. The weight of its warhead is 110 kilograms and it has a minimum flight altitude of 12 meters.
The J-10A fighter has 11 hardpoints, two of which are of compound structure, making the total number of hardpoints 13.
The PLA Navy seems to be assessing the possibility of acquiring J-10As for its combat ships. A Chinese source said that the navy liked its price and its aerial refuelling capability. This source also disclosed that the J-10A’s combat radius is 800 kilometers. In this regard, the technological standard of the materials used on the J-10A can be judged far inferior to those of the same-generation fighters of the United States and Europe.
The J-10A is already fitted with an arresting hook imported from Russia for shipboard landing drills. However, the same source said no decision had as yet been made as to whether the PLA Navy will employ the J-10A as a ship-borne combat aircraft

le nouveau né attire bcp d´attention,il coutera presque 30M$

Citation :

China air force woos allies with J-10 fighter jet
Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:01pm IST
By Lucy Hornby


YANGCUN AIR BASE, China (Reuters) - Four Chinese J-10 fighter jets banked and sported in perfect formation in the blue skies near Tianjin on Tuesday, before executing a neat landing, their braking parachutes billowing out just in front of a viewing stand filled with military attaches.

Many of the 51 attaches, some from Africa and the Middle East, may be future customers for the Made-in-China fighter jet.

So far no other country's air force has the J-10, but China hopes the plane's manoeuverability and price can compete with the U.S. and others in sales to third countries, many of them allies through whom Beijing is courting global influence.

Ever since the early 1990s, China has been working to slim and upgrade its military into a modern fighting force. That means developing fighters for the People's Liberation Army Air Force, and also planes that others would want.

"Yes, we have been given the option of getting this aircraft, and we are studying this option," said Salman Ahsan Bokhari, the Beijing-based air attache from Pakistan, tipped as a potential bulk buyer of the J-10.

"Until this time, we haven't seen it physically flying... It's a good time for all the world's air force to know the PLA has a valuable and important aircraft flying in the skies."

Many military analysts watch the Chinese air force for clues to how it would perform in an attack on Taiwan, the self-ruled island Beijing views as a breakaway province and that the United States is obligated to defend.

For China's allies, particularly in the developing world, the issue isn't so much the Chinese forces' performance as it is the hardware itself and the diplomatic strategy behind its purchase.

"We came to see the performance of this J-10 aircraft. I think it's quite impressive but we still have to see how it compares to others in its class," said Derek Mwendaofyo, the Beijing-based defence attache for Zambia, which has historical and mining investment ties to China.

DEFENSE AT HOME, SALES OVERSEAS

At the moment, the Chinese air force itself is still short of planes, with outside analysts noting Chinese pilots often have less flying time under their belts than Western forces.

The Yangcun base, on a flat plain about two hours drive from Beijing and near to Tianjin, has a ratio of 1.2 pilots to planes, said Yan Feng, commander of the 24th division based there.

"A lot of people look at hours in the air and quality of simulators and China still lags behind," said Matthew Durnin, a Beijing-based researcher with the World Security Institute.

"More importantly, their exercises are carefully scripted and controlled from the ground, which isn't very applicable to actual combat."

But for Pakistan, the geo-political balance between China, the United States, Japan and Taiwan in Northeast Asia is less important than that of South Asia, where it is balancing the Americans' desire for an ally against the Taliban in Afganistan with China's desire for better sea access to the energy-rich Middle East.

It is negotiating with the United States to buy 14 more F-16 fighter planes, Pakistan defence officials said in March after talks aimed at reversing tempestuous ties between the allies.

"In Pakistan we have Western aircraft, French aircraft and Chinese aircraft, so we will be able to see how we can position this in," Bokhari said, referring to possible purchases of the J-10. The Alabama-trained pilot said he wanted to try flying it.

"Price-wise, this is a point which is still under discussion, the main point."

For pilots like Yan Feng, the beauty of the J-10 lies in its manoeuverability, its stability, and its integrated avionics system.

Compared to a J-7 plane, which China has already exported, the J-10 "is like an adult to a child," Yan said.

"As a pilot and a division chief, I am very proud to have J-10 aircraft."

Yan estimated a J-10 cost the PLA Air Force, which he noted is also a consumer, about 190 million yuan ($27.84 million). That's pricey compared to the $15 million-plus price tag on a U.S. F-16 fighter, a favourite of world air forces.

"I believe the vendors know how to put it across to whoever the buyer is," said K Gambo, military attache from Nigeria, who said his country might consider buying from China.

"With good bargaining the price can come down."

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-47657420100413?sp=true

Video BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8617993.stm

Moi je dit bravo ,les chinois n'ont pas a rougir pour leur dernier né ,meme si les israeliens y sont pour le developpement .
Il a une belle gueule et d'apres ce qui se dit (a verifier quand meme...... ) il est bien maniable.
Ca promet pour plus tard....

Citation :

Su-33: le chasseur russe pas menacé par son clone chinois (expert)

L'avion chinois J-15 copié sur le Su-33 a très peu de chances de pouvoir rivaliser avec l'appareil russe sur les marchés extérieurs, a annoncé vendredi à RIA Novosti l'expert Igor Korotchenko, directeur du Centre d'analyse pour le commerce mondial d'armes.

"Le clone chinois ayant très peu de chance d'atteindre les performances du chasseur embarqué russe Su-33, je n'exclus pas que Pékin finisse par s'adresser à la Russie pour acquérir un lot de Su", a estimé l'expert.

La Chine conçoit son propre chasseur embarqué en prenant pour base l'une des premières versions du Su-33, le T10K, achetée il y a cinq ans en Ukraine et "dont la conception souffre de nombreux défauts par la suite corrigés".

Selon M.Korotchenko, le "talon d'Achille" de l'industrie aéronautique chinoise est aussi la construction de propulseurs de qualité et le règlement du problème de l'aile repliable.

La Chine élabore des chasseurs embarqués en vue d'en équiper ses futurs porte-avions. Pékin, dans le but de s'initier à l'expérience de création de ces navires, a déjà acheté en 1994 le Melbourne australien et les porte-aéronefs lourds soviétiques Variag, Kiev et Minsk.

http://fr.rian.ru/defense/20100604/186834008.html

remarquez le pod de désignation laser

une maquette d´un Lantirn on dirait,en tout cas targeting+navi

Impressionnant !! Très belle bête côté esthétique .. On voit bien que le J-10 reprend des caractéristiques des générations précédentes des Jianji's .. Notamment l'aile Delta du J-9 .
Côté ' Avionics ' .. Le J-10 n'est pas mal du tout aussi vu que le tout est Made in Israel je crois vu qu'il bénéficie de l'apport des technologies du IAI Lavi israélien .
Mais je ne vois pas comment les chinois veulent envahir le marché des pays du tiers monde avec un appareil qui coûte le prix de 2 F-16

comment ca le prix de 2 F-16,il est donné a 30M$
un F16 new build coute 50/60M$ fly away

Pas tout made in israel, puisque le LAVI a été plombé par les US qui refusèrent de céder certains éléments, le lavi devait dejà pour une bonne part être équipé US, mais je suis d'accord au niveau cellule, il se ressemble bcp, quoique, les règles aerodynamiques sont les memes pour tous.

PGM

Yakuza a écrit:

comment ca le prix de 2 F-16,il est donné a 30M$
un F16 new build coute 50/60M$ fly away

Je crois que le J-10 est surtout destiné à des pays pauvres d'Afrique ou d'Asie qui ne vont pas tout de même opter pour un F-16 New build mais surtout aux autres versions less expensive du Viper ( aux environs de 15 M$ si je ne me trompe pas ) ..

pas du tout Phantom ! le Pakistan a commandé 36 J10 (l'appelation pakistanaise est FC-20), la PAF est une aviation des plus crédibles au monde, ils n'auraient jamais adopté un tel chasseur s'il ne le mérite pas
la seule chose qui lui fait défaut est le fire control radar de fabrication domestique chinoise , s'il peut être équipé d'un radar+rwr+Ecm occidenteaux il n'aura rien à envier au rafale ou EF2000 pour un prix nettement moindre

PGM a écrit:

Pas tout made in israel, puisque le LAVI a été plombé par les US qui refusèrent de céder certains éléments, le lavi devait dejà pour une bonne part être équipé US

PGM

Aucunes restrictions US pour le Lavi qui n aurait jamais existé le TT massif et decisifs des firmes Americaines , le programme a seulement été tué dans l oeuf quand Reagan s est apercu que le Lavi allait rentré sur le marché mondial au detriment du F 16 .

Phantom a écrit:

Je
crois que le J-10 est surtout destiné à des pays pauvres d'Afrique ou
d'Asie..

non , ce role est devolu au JF 17 : le J 10 c est la niche de marché au dessus

FAMAS a écrit:

pas du tout Phantom ! le Pakistan a commandé 36 J10 (l'appelation pakistanaise est FC-20), la PAF est une aviation des plus crédibles au monde, ils n'auraient jamais adopté un tel chasseur s'il ne le mérite pas
la seule chose qui lui fait défaut est le fire control radar de fabrication domestique chinoise , s'il peut être équipé d'un radar+rwr+Ecm occidenteaux il n'aura rien à envier au rafale ou EF2000 pour un prix nettement moindre

D'accord FAMAS .. Mais vu les origines des attachés de défense qui ont assisté à la démonstration ( Zambie .. Nigeria ) on a l'impression que la Chine essaye de conquérir des marchés moins développés

l'Egypte était aussi représentée ! seuls les chinois sont en mesure de leur vendra un BVRAAM sans que Israël ne puisse s'y opposer, le AA12

Phantom a écrit:

D'accord FAMAS .. Mais vu les origines des attachés de défense qui ont assisté à la démonstration ( Zambie .. Nigeria ) on a l'impression que la Chine essaye de conquérir des marchés moins développés

Il y a un point commun entre ces 2 pays autre que la pauvreté que tu n'as pas vu, ce sont des pays africains! Tout le monde sait que les chinois ont les yeux tournés vers l'afrique pour sécuriser l'approvisionnement de son économie en matière première, ils font tout pour séduire et fidéliser les régimes africains, y compris via les ventes d'armes. Donc ce n'est pas une question de pauvreté ou de prix abordable, il s'agit là d'une concurrence géostratégique entre la chine et l'occident autour de l'afrique, l'armement est l'un des outils de cette concurrence.

Citation :

Phantom a écrit:

D'accord FAMAS .. Mais vu les origines des attachés de défense qui ont assisté à la démonstration ( Zambie .. Nigeria ) on a l'impression que la Chine essaye de conquérir des marchés moins développés

Il y a un point commun entre ces 2 pays autre que la pauvreté que tu n'as pas vu, ce sont des pays africains! Tout le monde sait que les chinois ont les yeux tournés vers l'afrique pour sécuriser l'approvisionnement de son économie en matière première, ils font tout pour séduire et fidéliser les régimes africains, y compris via les ventes d'armes. Donc ce n'est pas une question de pauvreté ou de prix abordable, il s'agit là d'une concurrence géostratégique entre la chine et l'occident autour de l'afrique, l'armement est l'un des outils de cette concurrence.

Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec toi là dessus .. C'était déjà ce que j'essayais de dire earlier D'ailleurs , la Chine a déjà mis la main sur d'autres secteurs clés dans quelques pays africains .. Je me rappelle bien avoir vu un jour un documentaire sur une chaîne anglaise " BBC Prime " qui traitait le sujet de l'infiltration chinoise en Afrique notamment au Congo ' RDC ' où la Chine s'occupe de tout ce qui est infrastructures .. santé .. éducation à l'échange d'un bon pourcentage des gains que rapporte le Cobalt congolais

Un dernier point, le Nigeria n'est pas un pays pauvre, c'est un pays riche qui a des problème de gouvernance, ce pays souffre de la corruption et de la bureaucratie qui font que les richesses de ce pays sont gaspillées et décimées laissant place à la pauvereté et la précartité, il est à l'image de tous les pays pétroliers du continent, des pays riches et des populations démunies.

Citation :

Phantom a écrit:

D'accord FAMAS .. Mais vu les origines des attachés de défense qui ont assisté à la démonstration ( Zambie .. Nigeria ) on a l'impression que la Chine essaye de conquérir des marchés moins développés

Il y a un point commun entre ces 2 pays autre que la pauvreté que tu n'as pas vu, ce sont des pays africains.

ces pays ont surtout la particularité de deja posseder quasiment tous des chasseurs ou des trainers chinois

Un avion de chasse assez performant mais qui pour certain reste peut fiable,du coup les chinois vont sortir le J-11 A et B qui équipera l'armé de l'air Chinoise pour prouver a ses détracteurs que cette aéronef reste sur et performant:

Citation :

J-10B Gets AESA

New Chinese internet images appear to show what has been suspected for some time: The new J-10B version of Chengdu's canard fighter is fitted with an electronically scanned array radar. It could be a Rafale-type passive ESA, but that's improbable in 2011 -- it is more likely an active ESA, its development quite likely aided by China's massive campaign of cyberespionage.


The J-10B is interesting because it represents a major block change to what is itself a relatively new design. The most visible change is the diverterless supersonic inlet -- a feature that is usually associated with front-sector radar cross-section reduction. (The DSI was originally developed for an improved F-16 design.) In the J-10B's case, it may also be a less costly and less noisy alternative to the strut-braced mixed-compression ramp on the original design -- but the latest J-10B photos also show the telltale tint of a metallic-treated canopy.

Other changes include what appears to be a new electronic warfare system with larger antennas in underwing fairings and a fin-tip housing, and a missile approach/launch warning system. A standard J-10 has also been seen with twin-rail launchers for PL-12 missiles.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3Ad77beb4e-52f5-4c3b-941b-3a43ed9aee1d

bien que les infos sur le J10b se font très rare
voici enfin l'AESA de la bête dévoilé , avec 1152 modules à les croire....
cet appareil a toutes les qualités pour impressionner

je sais a quoi tu penses,si c´etait pas la logistique qui sera stressée encore,mais ca vaut l´interet de pres
faut voir la retex des pakis avec