Armée algérienne (ANP) Tome I

Rappel du premier message :

Citation :

The Tula Instrument Design Bureau (KBP) is completing its development of a new combined cannon/gun anti-aircraft system called Pantzyr-S1. The first of these systems are to be delivered to the United Arab Emirates by year-end.
According to Arkady Shipunov, who left the position of KBP's general director in late September, the Pantzyr's export backlog already has reached $2.6 billion. In addition to the United Arab Emirates — which financed the system's development and became its launch customer — Syria and Algeria also have placed orders. Shipunov said that negotiations on the delivery of additional systems are being held with five more countries in North Africa, Southeast Asia and Europe.

http://www.ato.ru/rus/cis/archive/15-2006/def/def5/?sess_=e6a0b8f3e259ed0e48b462fcffd24c62

Negociation d'achats de systeme PANTSIR S1 pour l'algerie

4-5 euro

c'est quoi l'histoire de ces derniers photos DW ?

je crois exercice algéro_lybien ???

ont diraient qu'ils se préparent à la guerre

ils posent bien..

belle photo doctor watson

ils sont equipé de kalach? c est un peu lourd non pour des forces speciales?

merci doc.

Return to Sender: India Rejects Kilo/Klub Sub & Missile Upgrades

Citation :

Sindhugosh Class
Russia's Type 877 Kilo Class diesel-electric submarines have gained a reputation as an extremely quiet boats, and are in service with Russia (24), China (2), India (8 ), Iran (3), Poland, Romania and Algeria. India's Type 877EKM Sindhugosh Class submarines [S55-S62] began to travel to Russia for refits in 1997, with S58 INS Sindhuvir as the first candidate. A German-designed, Indian-built main battery has replaced the Russian batteries in all vessels, and India's submarines have also received either a Russian upgrade package of missiles, sonar, and machinery & weapon control systems, or India's indigenous Panchendriya package. The goal is to bring them closer to parity with the more advanced Type 636 Improved Kilo Class variant – S65 INS Sindhushastra, and possibly S63 INS Sindhurakshak, are already rumored to be at or close to that level.

Now a serious incident has put a brake on the refit program, as India has returned S62 INS Sindhuvijay to its Russian contractor, citing unacceptable performance with its new sub-launched Klub missiles. With the $1+ billion Admiral Gorshkov carrier refit already in trouble, and Russia making hostile foreign policy moves, the last thing the relationship needs is another problem – but that's what it has…


Klub-S 3M-54E1
Sindhugosh Class Boats from S58 INS Sindhuvir onward include a 9M36 Strela-3 (SA-N-8 ) surface-air missile launcher placed in the fin, which can be used when the submarine is surfaced. This armament complements the sub's capacity for 18 heavyweight torpedos. Upgraded subs will swap in up to 5 of OKB Novator's subsonic Klub-S 3M-54E1 (SS-N-27 Sizzler) anti-ship missiles, with a 220km range. This anti-ship missile capability is a new addition to India's submarine force, and is the centerpiece of India's 'Improved Sindhugosh Class' efforts as it multiplies the submarines' effectiveness by several orders of magnitude. The forthcoming SSK Scorpene Class/ Exocet combination purchased from France will also have missile capabilities.

The Kilo Class boats' mid-life refit is conducted by Zvyozdochka's Onega Research & Development Technological Bureau (ORDTB) in in Severodvinsk, Russia. In addition to the Klub-S, it also involves a complete overhaul of the submarine, including its hull structure, as well as improved control systems (Lama-ER, Palladij-M), sonars (MGK-400EM?), electronic warfare systems, and the AICS (Automated Information & Control system) integrated weapon control system. The upgrades reportedly costs roughly $80 million per boat.

Boats with the Panchendriya package, meanwhile, are equipped with an Indian sonar (USHUS) and fire control system designed by Bharat Electronics Limited and the Indian Navy, and the CCS-MK radio communications system, in place of the original or upgraded Russian versions. All remaining submarines after S55 INS Sindhugosh are scheduled to receive it.

The first 2 Type 877EKM Sindhugosh Class submarines were refitted at the Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg, Russia. S58 INS Sindhuvir completed a 2-year mid-life refit in April 1999, and S57 INS Sindhuraj followed. S60 INS Sindhukesari was the first to complete a refit in Zvyozdochka Shipyard under a 2001 contract, and S59 INS Sindhuratna followed and returned to India in early 2003. S55 INS Sindhugosh was the 3rd submarine to complete her refit at Zvyozdochka, and the first to receive the Indian-designed Panchendriya package; she returned to India in late 2005.

S62 INS Sindhuvijay is the 4th submarine to be refit at Zvyozdochka, and the 2nd to receive the Panchendriya package. Which brings us to the issue at hand.

Klub-S 3M-14E
On July 6/06 India's Cabinet added a new wrinkle and approved the purchase of 28 Klub-S 3M-14E cruise missiles, at a cost of Rs 844.58 crores (about $184 million). This subsonic land-attack variant would give Indian submarines land attack capabilities for the first time. Unfortunately the Klub 3M-14E, or its interface with India's Panchendriya package, appears to be the problem in this case.

S55 INS Sindhugosh is reportedly the first submarine to receive this refit (though the timelines don't match), and S62 INS Sindhuvijay the second. INS Sindhuvijay was handed back to the Indian Navy on May 6/07, after arriving at Zvyozdochka's shipyard in Severodvinsk in 2006 for upgrades.

Then trials began for the upgraded submarine. In 6 consecutive, pre-delivery test firings between September – November 2007, the SS-N-27 Klub missiles failed to find their targets. In response, India has withdrawn the 50-man crew sent to sail back with the submarine, and told Zvyozdochka ORDTB that the problem must be fixed before it takes delivery. Indian Naval officials reportedly said it would take another year to rectify the defects, and prove the fix in firing trials.

The INS Sindhugosh reportedly completed its Klub-S 3M-54E1 firing trials successfully in October 2005, before rejoining the fleet and finding itself in an accident. This leaves the cause something of a mystery, unless the missiles being fired were land-attack 3M-14Es, or the upgrade itself was faulty.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/return-to-sender-india-rejects-kiloklub-sub-missile-upgrades-04581/#more

Citation :

28 Klub-S 3M-14E cruise missiles, at a cost of Rs 844.58 crores (about $184 million). This subsonic land-attack variant would give Indian submarines land attack capabilities for the first time. Unfortunately the Klub 3M-14E, or its interface with India’s Panchendriya package, appears to be the problem in this case.

The INS Sindhugosh reportedly completed its Klub-S 3M-54E1 firing trials successfully in October 2005, before rejoining the fleet and finding itself in an accident. This leaves the cause something of a mystery, unless the missiles being fired were land-attack 3M-14Es, or the upgrade itself was faulty.

Il s'agit en réalité d'une incompatibilité avec les logiciels indien de plus ils disent que le problème sera certainement réglé d'ici 1 an ... t'en mieux car les nouveaux soum algérien sont encore en chantier

Merci pour l’article Romeoh

il est fichu le Klub effectivement,faut voir ailleur que la feraille russe quand meme les indiens le rejettent...0% target-kill c´est rien a dire!!

yakousa a écrit:

il est fichu le Klub effectivement,faut voir ailleur que la feraille russe quand meme les indiens le rejettent...0% target-kill c´est rien a dire!!

Oui ou bien il change de logiciel parce que la compatibilité est o

si tu veux l´expliquer ainsi pourquoi pas

(rien appris de l´episode SMT ?)

yakousa a écrit:

si tu veux l´expliquer ainsi pourquoi pas

(rien appris de l´episode SMT ?)

Si tu prends 2 minutes à lire l'article au lieu de dire ce que tu souhaite...

S’il y a des problèmes on a largement les moyens de voir ailleurs

alors y´aura necessité a le faire vite car ca ne promet pas bcp ce missile russe watson,et faut pas prendre ca a la legere avec des explication a la "les indiens ils avent rien faire" ou "Oh les indiens fabriquent des logiciels bidon"...

c´est faire l´autruche
l´article je l´ai lu a ca publication deja et j´ai suivi cette affaire de plus pres sur un site indien...ca craint pour la techno russe doc

Il parle d'incompatibilité avec les systèmes introduit par les Indiens dans les Kilos et le problème sur les soum indiens sera certainement résolut d’ici 1 an. C’est dans l’article je n’invente rien, c’est écrit noir sur blanc

Maintenant si toi tu as des infos top secret de Russie je veux bien en savoir plus

ren de secret...

Citation :

The navy recently refused to take the delivery of Sindhuvijay, which completed refit at the Zvyozdochka shipyard near St Petersburg after its missiles failed to find their targets.

The 50-man crew sent to Russia to sail back with the submarine is set to return to India with the naval brass taking a stern line by asking the shipyard to fix the problem before it takes the delivery of the submarine.

The Sindhuvijay, which completed its year-long refit in Russia last year, sailed to a test range in the Barents Sea for a series of firings on land targets.

The 3M54E1 Klub cruise missiles, however, failed to hit the targets in as many as six consecutive test firings carried out in the Arctic between September and November.

In certain cases, the snub-nosed subsonic missiles veered several kilometres away from their intended targets leading the navy to take this drastic step. It will take another year to rectify the defects and prove it in trials.

Citation :

Two years ago, the Sindhughosh was equipped with land attack missile in Russia, becoming the first Indian submarine to be equipped thus. Coming out of its refit in Zvyozdochka shipyard it hit targets on land in the Barents Sea two times out of the four test firings.

The 50 per cent hit rate was regarded as acceptable and the navy took delivery. In the past few years, however, the navy has been plagued with a series of misfires from anti-ship variants of the missile fired from Kilo class submarine.

Now the non-performance of the land-attack variant has only added to the navy’s worries: it bought 28 of them from Russia in 2006 for Rs 844 crore.

“Unsatisfactory performance by contractors is not a new phenomenon,” says Rear Admiral (retired) Raja Menon. “It cannot be said to be a failure on the part of the navy because it runs tough contracts,” he added. However, the glitches are significant because they are one in a series of technical defects, which have surfaced in Russian-origin equipment in the past few years.

Analysts say this is due to a change in the way equipment is now being purchased from Russia. Earlier, most military equipment saw extensive service in the Soviet Union and was then exported to client states like India.

Citation :

It now seems to be paying the price for inadequately tested equipment. While it is not clear where the problem with this variant of the missile is, the navy believes it lies in the submarine’s gyro, which feeds in the crucial parameters into the missile before it is launched. The gyro is also believed to be at the heart of the problems in the anti-ship variants of the Klub.

The navy is planning to install French-built inertial navigation systems in Kilo class submarines to replace the Russian-built systems.

“If the problems persist, we may have to consider replacing the Klub with other options,” said a defence ministry official. Part of the shopping list during navy chief Sureesh Mehta’s visit to Israel was to explore other options.

Replacing it, however, is considered as the last option as it involves extensive rewiring of the entire submarine fleet. Until then, the winter of discontent with Russia continues.

pour lire tout le texte :http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1952564/posts

tres interessant Doc

dr.watson1 a écrit:

Citation :

28 Klub-S 3M-14E cruise missiles, at a cost of Rs 844.58 crores (about $184 million). This subsonic land-attack variant would give Indian submarines land attack capabilities for the first time. Unfortunately the Klub 3M-14E, or its interface with India’s Panchendriya package, appears to be the problem in this case.

The INS Sindhugosh reportedly completed its Klub-S 3M-54E1 firing trials successfully in October 2005, before rejoining the fleet and finding itself in an accident. This leaves the cause something of a mystery, unless the missiles being fired were land-attack 3M-14Es, or the upgrade itself was faulty.

Il s'agit en réalité d'une incompatibilité avec les logiciels indien de plus ils disent que le problème sera certainement réglé d'ici 1 an ... t'en mieux car les nouveaux soum algérien sont encore en chantier

Merci pour l’article Romeoh

Elles commencent a etre nombreuses les plaintes! Le pire, c'est la reaction Russe, achetez ma camelotte et fermez la, sinon, j'annule tout!
L'armement russe a toujours ete le meilleur sur le papier (T72,Mig29...), mais il est impossible de construire des armes de bonne qualité sans les outils industriels appropriés or la qualité n'a jamais ete une preoccupation, seules les quantités importent, la doctrine sovietique le demontre.
La Russie se reveille de l'hibernation qui a suivi la chute de l'URSS et je ne pense pas que les techniques de construction et d'assemblage aient evolué. Les maigres fonds disponibles on ete utilisés pour la conceptions d'armes nouvelles, donc les incidents avec l'Inde et l'Algerie ne sont pas vraiment etonnants et je m'attends a voir d'autres problemes dans le futur. Bref, si vous voulez de la qualité, achetez occidental, vous voulez de grandes quantités (avec les doctrines lourdes qui vont avec) achetez russe.
A mon avis, ce qui coince, c'est le Klub en entier car il n'est pas encore pret, tout semble prouver cette hypothese.