Moroccan Military Forum alias FAR-MAROC Royal Moroccan Armed Forces Royal Moroccan Navy Royal Moroccan Air Forces Forces Armées Royales Forces Royales Air Marine Royale Marocaine |
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| Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) | |
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+40GlaivedeSion rafi bradli23 MAATAWI eagle30 al_bundy Yakuza reese romh FAMAS Proton Cherokee Mr.Jad ultras aa atlas Leo Africanus Samyadams Fremo Viper1912 TooNs Extreme28 aymour lemay lida kuchi Harm BOUBOU RED BISHOP jonas maodin gigg00 Fahed64 marques Seguleh I Fox-One Viper juba2 Northrop rmaf 44 participants | |
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rmaf Administrateur
messages : 15609 Inscrit le : 18/03/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Ven 18 Juil 2008 - 7:34 | |
| Rappel du premier message :AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM est l'abréviation de Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, soit « missile air-air de moyenne portée avancé ») est un missile air-air de moyenne portée (de 75 à 110 km) muni d'un système de guidage à radar actif. - Les AIM-9 Sidewinder sont une famille de missiles air-air courte-portée guidés par infrarouge conçus et fabriqués aux États-Unis. Son nom vient d'un serpent, le sidewinder snake (Crotalus cerastes, espèce de crotale) qui détecte lui aussi ses proies par la chaleur. Particulièrement efficace en combat Air-Air rapproché, il est emporté par de nombreux appareils, incluant des hélicoptères. La version M 8/9 améliorée par ajout d'un moteur à faible émission de fumée et d'anti-contre-mesures. - L'AGM-88 HARM (High-speed, Anti-Radiation Missile : « Missile anti-radar à grande vitesse ») est un missile air-sol tactique supersonique conçu aux États-Unis pour trouver et détruire les systèmes de défense anti-aérienne guidés par radar. Il ne nécessite que peu d'interventions de la part de l'équipage de l'avion lanceur. L'AGM-88C HARM (avec une version D améliorant ses performances) qui est équipé d'une sorte de détecteur d'ondes radar et qui se guide vers l'antenne qu'il veut détruire en se servant des émissions de celui-ci. Si le radar coupe ses émissions, le missile se guide sur ses dernières coordonnées connues (en mode inertiel). Tout ce processus est dit "passif". - Le AGM-65 Maverick est un missile air-sol conçu pour les missions d'appui rapproché, d'interdiction de zone et de suppression des défenses ennemies. Il offre à son lanceur une capacité de tir à distance de sécurité avec grande précision contre des cibles tactiques variées telles que blindés, défenses anti-aériennes, navires, équipements de transport ou de stockage. AGM-65D/G : Version en service dans l'US Air Force, le système de guidage peut verrouiller des cibles de plus grande taille. Capteur IR + charge de 135kg. AGM-65H : 2003. Version améliorée du système de guidage TV. - "Joint Direct-Attack Munition" (JDAM). Kit ajouté aux bombes conventionnelles en fait des armes guidées par le "Global-Positioning-System" (GPS), un système de repérage par satellite. Ces bombes modifiées sont donc capables de frapper leurs cibles avec une très grande précision, tout en faisant dans des conditions climatiques qui nuisent normalement aux bombes guidées par vidéo ou par laser. Utilisé lors de la guerre en Afghanistan, le JDAM a atteint un taux de réussite de près de 100 %, avec une marge d'erreur d'environ cinq mètres. Il y a deux models le GBU-31 avec des bombes MK-82 de 250Kg et le GBU-38 avec des bombes MK-84 de 1000Kg. - Les GBU Paveway est un type de bombe d'origine américaine guidée par laser. Elle constitue une grande partie de l’armement Air-Sol des forces aériennes des États-Unis et a été largement exportée. - GBU-24, PAVEWAY III, 1000Kg avec bombe Mk-84- La GBU-12 PAVEWAY II combine la charge d'une bombe Mk 82 et un kit de guidage laser Paveway II (MAU-169). Ce kit comprend un système de contrôle informatique qui guide les ailettes (fins) situées à l'avant vers l'objectif illuminé par le laser. A l'arrière, quatre autres ailettes assurent la portance de l'engin et sa stabilité aérodynamique. - Comme la GBU-12, la GBU-10 est la combinaison de la charge d'une bombe Mk 84 1000Kg et d'un kit Paveway II | |
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Viper Modérateur
messages : 7967 Inscrit le : 24/04/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 11:50 | |
| - Phosphore a écrit:
- Je suis contre l'achat de nouvel appareil.
Des arguments, des arguments ....les gars ! _________________ | |
| | | Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 12:12 | |
| - Phosphore a écrit:
- Je suis contre l'achat de nouvel appareil.
le fait belge montre pourtant que l´EM pense autrement,je vous ai dit,on restera pas sur 24,Benguerir ne sera pas overhaulé pour 24 seulement,c´est comme batire une maison a 2 etages et n´habiter qu´au Rez de chaussée |
| | | RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 12307 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 19:04 | |
| C'est clair qu'il y a une ambition marocaine d'acquérir de nouveau F-16 les négociation (raté ?) avec la Belgique le prouve mais on peut acquérir d'autre F-16 d'occasion comme a déja fait l'Egypte et surtout le Chili avec les Pays Bas, le Danemark, pourquoi pas la Turquie c'est pays veulent s'équiper en nouveau avion F-35 donc les F-16 seront a vendre inchallah | |
| | | juba2 General de Division
messages : 6954 Inscrit le : 02/04/2008 Localisation : USA Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 19:31 | |
| U.S. Air Force Stock,c'est de la que le Maroc prendra les autres 24 F16,believe me.Yak was right about Benguerir. | |
| | | Viper Modérateur
messages : 7967 Inscrit le : 24/04/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 20:02 | |
| Des block 40 Upgradé c'est possible, sachant que l'USAF à déjà fourni des appareils par le passé _________________ | |
| | | Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 22:16 | |
| je pense que c'est fort probable, surtout quand on voit le faible interet qu'a montré l'EM pour les MLU belges.
Dernière édition par Raptor le Dim 22 Fév 2009 - 13:36, édité 1 fois |
| | | Fahed64 Administrateur
messages : 25545 Inscrit le : 31/03/2008 Localisation : Pau-Marrakech Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 22:30 | |
| C'est le seul choix logique sur le marché de l'occasion. Seulement si le choix sera porté sur d'ex F-16 US il faudra surveiller l'état des cellules, des moteurs bref de l'avionique en générale, car l'USAF ne mettra pas en vente des vipers mis sous cocon..... De plus, au vue du rythme poussé d'utilisation des appareils il se peut qu'ils nous refourguent des F-16 " en fin de vie" et la se posera de nouveau la question dans 10 à 15 ans l'achat ou non d'appareils neufs.
Je pense honnetement que LM ne fermera pas ses chaines de montages F16 car le JSF n'est pas "prêt" et le marché est la ( Inde?, Israel si ils refusent le JSF) et pourquoi pas le Maroc again? Je pense que l'EM nous reservera une surprise, car au Maroc ont est pas riche mais on prend toujours le must à notre disposition..... | |
| | | RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 12307 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 22:34 | |
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| | | Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Jeu 19 Fév 2009 - 22:41 | |
| - Fahed64 a écrit:
- ...De plus, au vue du rythme poussé d'utilisation des appareils il se peut qu'ils nous refourguent des F-16 " en fin de vie" et la se posera de nouveau la question dans 10 à 15 ans l'achat ou non d'appareils neufs.
ce n'est pas dans les habitudes des US de tricher dans les avions qu'ils livrent, exemple: les F-5 ex agressors qui nous été livrés, ils ont bcp volé aux mains des pilotes US mais ils sont toujours en bon état et on a jamais eu de problème avec ces appareils de puis 27 ans de service au sein des FRA. les américains peuvent te downgradé ton chasseur s'ils le veulent mais ils te le diront, c'est pas comme d'autres pays qui vendent de la comlote rouillé et te disent que c'est du neuf...tu sait de qui je parle - Citation :
- Je pense honnetement que LM ne fermera pas ses chaines de montages F16 car le JSF n'est pas "prêt" et le marché est la ( Inde?, Israel si ils refusent le JSF) et pourquoi pas le Maroc again?
Je pense que l'EM nous reservera une surprise, car au Maroc ont est pas riche mais on prend toujours le must à notre disposition..... moi aussi je pense que la chaine de montage F-16 ''peut être'' prolongée, mais ce n'est pas si sûr tout dépend du contrat indien comm j'ai déjà dit, mais c'est pas gagné d'avance. |
| | | Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Ven 20 Fév 2009 - 13:59 | |
| Dans les 5ans qui arrivent, si le Maroc arrive a maintenir une croissance correcte voir bonne..ya pas de raison pour ne pas acheter d'autre appareils. |
| | | gigg00 Colonel-Major
messages : 2111 Inscrit le : 18/06/2008 Localisation : Kenitra-Venise Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: DOSSIER F-16 MAROCAIN Ven 20 Fév 2009 - 18:27 | |
| fahd 64 a dit : - Citation :
- car l'USAF ne mettra pas en vente des vipers mis sous cocon....
et pouqoi pas? ...je vous fais noter que les vipers des usaf sont plus uses en therme de cellules que celles des beleges ou autres ..a mon avis se sera ou ca ou du new. | |
| | | Invité Invité
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Sam 21 Fév 2009 - 3:14 | |
| Un dossier du 'http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/' consacré aux dernières acquisitions du FRA et l'histoire rafale/F16. Bonne lecture! - Citation :
Morocco’s Air Force Reloads
Morocco’s combat air force currently flies 2 squadrons of old F-5s, and 2 squadrons of only slightly newer Mirage F1s; T-37 light jets serve as key transitional trainers. Their neighbor and rival Algeria flies MiG-23s of similar vintage, but the Force Aerienne Algerienne also flies SU-24 Fencer and SU-25 Frogfoot strike aircraft, even more modern and capable MiG-29s, and is set to receive multi-role MiG-29SMTs and/or multi-role SU-30MKs as part of a multi-billion dollar weapons deal with Russia.
Morocco can’t beat that array. Instead, it is looking for replacement aircraft that will prevent complete overmatch, and provide it with a measure of security.
Initially, they looked to France. France’s Rafale is part of a set of European 4+ generation fighters that were developed and fielded during the 1990s-early 21st century, with the aim of surpassing existing offerings among America’s “teen series” fighters, as well as Russia’s Mig-29 Fulcrum and SU-27/30 Flanker family. “Dogfight at the Casbah: Rafale vs. F-16” discussed the French sales slip-ups that cost Dassault its first export order for the 4+ generation fighter. That outcome is now official. Just to make things worse, the final multi-billion dollar deal involves new-build F-16s, at a price comparable to the rumored figures for the Rafale. Not to mention an accompanying request to replace Morocco’s T-37 trainer fleet, and subsequent contracts for air-launched weapons and for C-27J short-haul transports.
Dernière édition par Achille le Sam 21 Fév 2009 - 3:23, édité 1 fois |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Sam 21 Fév 2009 - 3:23 | |
| Historique des dernières acquisitions des FRA - Citation :
Contracts and Key Events
Dec 1/08: Raytheon announces a contract from Lockheed Martin for its ACES (advanced countermeasures electronic system) for 24 Royal Moroccan Air Force F-16 Block 52 aircraft.
The ACES system is Raytheon’s latest offering for the F-16, and consists of a radar warning receiver, digital jammer and chaff-flare dispensers. The system features a new, all-digital, low cost, high performance radar warning receiver for dense signal environments, and a new digital RF memory-based (DRFM) jammer with enhanced resource management and an upgraded bag of tricks. Raytheon’s contract calls for deliveries to begin in December 2009.
Note that the original DSCA announcement involved 28 of ITT’s AN/ALQ-211 AIDEWS; or BAE Systems’ AN/ALQ-178 SPEWS suites, or or Raytheon’s AN/ALQ-187 ASPIS II suites. ACES would represent an upgrade from ASPIS II.
Oct 23/08: Finmeccanica subsidiary Alenia Aeronautica announces [PDF] that the Moroccan Defence Ministry has placed a EUR 130 million order for 4 C-27J Spartan tactical transport aircraft.
This brings the total number of firm C-27J orders received to 121 (US Army 78, Italy 12, Greece 12 + 3 option, Romania 7, Bulgaria 5 + 3 option, Morocco 4, Lithuania 3), and is the first order from a non-NATO country.
The Alkowat al malakiya al jawiya (RMAF) currently operates a fleet of about 19 C-130H/KC-130H Hercules aircraft as its mainstay transports; this order appears designed to supplement that C-130 feet with smaller short-field cargo aircraft that don’t have the same number of flight-hours on their airframes, rather than serving as any kind of replacement.
Aug 28/08: The DB-110 pod contract is announced on the Pentagon’s DefenseLink. Goodrich Corp. Surveillance and Reconnaissance Systems of Chelmsford, MA won an $87.9 million contract for 4 reconnaissance pods, 1 mobile ground station, 1 fixed ground station, 2 mission planners, in-country technical representatives, technical manuals, and test and integration support. At this time $37.8 million has been committed. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH is managing the contract (FA8620-08-C-3013).
July 14/08: Goodrich Corporation announces a contract to provide its DB-110 airborne reconnaissance pods for the Royal Moroccan Air Force’s new Block 52+ F-16 fighters. The Foreign Military Sale (FMS) contract calls for Goodrich to provide 4 of its reconnaissance pods, plus data links, multiple ground exploitation systems and related support services. Work will be performed by the company’s ISR Systems teams in Chelmsford, MA and Malvern, UK.
See the DSCA listing in the Dec 19/07 entry; the DB-110 beat BAE’s TARS alternative.
July 9/08: The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency announces [PDF] Morocco’s formal request for weapons to equip its new F-16s. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $155 million.
The request includes a number of different weapons, along with containers, bomb components, spare/repair parts, publications, documentation, personnel and training, contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related support elements.
The principal contractors will be:
* Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX (F-16) * Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX (Paveway) * Boeing Integrated Defense Systems in Seattle, WA (JDAM) * Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ (AMRAAM, HARM, Maverick, Paveway, Sidewinder)
Weapons requested will include:
* 30 AIM-120-C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to Air Missiles (AMRAAM). The most recent production version is the C7.
* 60 AIM-9M SIDEWINDER Missiles. The most recent production version is the next-generation AIM-9X, but most American aircraft still carry AIM-9Ms. * 20 AGM-88B/C HARM Missiles, used to attack radar sites. * 8 AGM-65D/G MAVERICK Missiles, which use imaging infared (IIR) guidance. The AGM-65G is especially useful against hardened targets. * 45 AGM-65H MAVERICK Missiles. These use camera-based guidance, which can be more useful in hot desert environments. * 50 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) tail kits (20 GBU-31 for MK-82 500 lb bombs, and 30 GBU-38s for MK-84 2,000 lb bombs); * 20 GBU-24, PAVEWAY III laser-guidance and fin kits to convert 2,000 pound bombs. * 50 GBU-10, PAVEWAY II laser-guidance kits for 2,000 lb. bombs with penetrating warheads for hardened targets. * 150 GBU-12, PAVEWAY II laser-guidance kits for 500 lb. bombs. * 60 Enhanced GBU-12 PAVEWAY II bombs, with dual-mode GPS/laser guidance. * 300 MK-82 training “bombs” * 60,000 training projectiles for 20mm cannons, which are found in the F-16 and in Morocco’s F-5s * 4,000 self-protection chaff for use in the ALE-47 self-protection system * 4,000 ALE-47 self-protection flares and associated equipment and services.
June 6/08: Pratt & Whitney announces that its F100-PW-229 engine has been selected by the Royal Moroccan Air Force to power their new fleet of F-16 Block 52 aircraft, beating GE’s F110-GE-129. The engine program is valued at approximately $170 million, with deliveries to take place in 2010 and 2011.
The F100-PW-229’s Engine Enhancement Package (EEP) aims to increase the time until full depot inspection from 7-10 years, while providing up to 30% life cycle cost reductions and reduce the predicted in-flight shutdown rate by up to 25%. To date, F100-PW-229 powered aircraft have logged more than 963,000 flight hours in more than 16 years of operational service, and the Royal Moroccan Air Force becomes the 22nd international customer to select the F100 engine family for F-16 or F-15 aircraft.
May 30/08: Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems Co. of Fort Worth TX received a firm fixed price contract not to exceed $233.6 million for 24 F-16 Block 52 aircraft, along with associated support equipment, alternate mission equipment and support elements for the Government of Morocco. At this time $124.3 million has been obligated.
The 312AESG/PK at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH manages this contract (FA8615-08-C-6050). As one might guess from the amount, this is not the full purchase price, just the cost of key materials and components that have long lead times, and must be ordered now to ensure timely delivery of the finished fighters. Note: this contract was re-announced on June 5/08.
Dec 19/07: The US DSCA announces [PDF] Morocco’s formal request for 24 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft as well as associated equipment and services – but not weapons. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $2.4 billion. The proposed sale includes:
* 24 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPE), and APG-68v9 radars; * 24 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs); * 5 F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 IPE spare engines; * 4 APG-68v9 spare radar sets; * 30 AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems (CMDS) * 30 AN/ALR-56M Radar Warning Receivers (RWR) * 60 LAU-129/A Launchers; * 30 LAU-117 Launchers; * 6 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems; * 12 AN/AAQ-33 Sniper ATP, or AN/AAQ-28 LITENING advanced surveillance and targeting pods. Even the choice is surprising, as Northrop Grumman’s LITENING was jointly developed with RAFAEL of Israel; DID predicts a Sniper ATP purchase. * 5 Tactical Air Reconnaissance Systems (TARS) or DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods (RECCE); Goodrich’s DB-110 is already integrated into Poland’s F-16s, an eventually won here, too. * 4 AN/ARC-238 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) radios with HAVE QUICK I/II; * 4 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT); * 2 Link-16 Ground Stations; * 4 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/ Inertial Navigation Systems (INS); * 4 AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems; * 28 AN/ALQ-211 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites (AIDEWS); or 28 AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites (ASPIS II); or 28 AN/ALQ-178 Self Protection Electronic Warfare Suites (SPEWS) * 1 Unit Level Trainer * Associated support equipment, software development/integration, tanker support, ferry services, CAD/PAD, repair and return, modification kits, spares and repair parts, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical, engineering, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.
The principal contractors (and some of their key offerings) will be:
* Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX (F-16 prime) * Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX (Sniper ATP) * BAE Advanced Systems Greenlawn, New York (Electronic Warfare, IFF, TARS) * Boeing Corporation Seattle, Washington * Boeing Integrated Defense Systems (three locations) St Louis, MO; Long Beach and San Diego, CA * Raytheon Company (two locations) Lexington, MA; Goleta, CA * Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ * Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX (LITENING) * Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD (AN/APG-68v9) * Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT (F100 engine) * General Electric Aircraft Engines in Cincinnati, OH (F110 engine) * Goodrich ISR Systems in Danbury, CT (DB-110) * L3 Communications in Arlington, TX
Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Morocco involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews/support, program management, and training over a period of 15 years.
Dec 19/07: The DSCA release [PDF] notes that:
“The Royal Moroccan Air Force’s (RMAF) fleet of T-37 aircraft was produced in the early 1960s. The T-37s high fuel and maintenance costs, and low mission-capable rates led to the RMAF’s decision to procure new trainer aircraft. The T-6B aircraft will reduce fuel requirements by 66%. The RMAF will use these new aircraft to modernize its air force and to improve operational capability in coalition operations and exercises, and contribute to a modern air defense network for the legitimate defense of Morocco.”
Hence Morocco’s official request for 24 T-6B Texan trainer aircraft with very secondary light attack capability. Associated equipment will include Global Positioning Systems (GPS) with CMA-4124 GNSSA card and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation System (INS) spares, ferry maintenance, tanker support, aircraft ferry services, site survey, unit level trainer, spare and repair parts, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of logistics support.
Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Morocco involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews/support, program management, and training over a period of 15 years. The estimated cost is $200 million, and the principal contractors would be:
* Hawker Beechcraft Corporation in Wichita, KS (aircraft) * Pratt & Whitney Corporation near Montreal, Canada and in Bridgeport, WVA (engines) * Martin Baker in Middlesex, United Kingdom (ejection seat) * Hartzel Propeller in Pique, OH (propeller) * CMC, with headquarters in Montreal, Canada and offices in Ottawa, Canada and Sugar Grove, IL (cockpit avionics) * L-3 Vertex in Madison, MS
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Sam 21 Fév 2009 - 3:31 | |
| - Citation :
Why The F-16? DID Analysis
Defence Aerospace claims that France’s Rafale offers were 18 jets for EUR 1.8 billion (currently $2.6 billion), or 24 jets for EUR 2.4 billion (currently $3.45 billion), along with MBDA’s Mica air-air missiles and AASM laser-guided bombs:
“Contrary to earlier reports, Morocco is buying new F-16s, and not surplus US Air Force aircraft. The price it is paying is broadly comparable to that offered by France for the Rafale, giving the lie to reports that Moroccan authorities were swayed by a cut-rate offer made by the United States.
France made two offers, one for 18 Rafales for 1.8 billion euros ($2.6 billion), and one for 2.2 billion euros ($3.2 billion) for 24 aircraft. The French offers included a full weapons suite (MICA air-to-air missiles and AASM laser-guided bombs) as well as an extensive ground environment, that Morocco will have to buy separately for the F-16s.”
There is little transparency in these sorts of negotiations, so the public may never know the exact answer to Defense Aerospace’s implicit questions. Few would dispute that the Rafale is a significantly better plane, offering Morocco a level of quality overmatch that the F-16C/Ds cannot promise against neighboring Algeria’s MiG-29s and SU-30s. The F-16s’ potential winning edge thus comes down to some combination of the most likely explanations: price, network effects, strategic leverage… and pride.
When comparing the offers, the first thing any analysis must note is that a reasonably extensive support network is in fact built into the American offer. Equivalent weapons like the AIM-120 AMRAAM and Paveway II/III kits were not included, but they are unlikely to add more than $200 million to the price of 24 aircraft. An American dollar discount of 45% can still make that an attractive offer; indeed Morocco’s “equivalent choice” actually involves a 33% discount of 24 F-16C/Ds for the price of 18 Rafales, assuming a budget of around $2.6 billion for the aircraft and basic weapons.
Depending on relative in-service rates, the difference in aircraft that are actually available for use at any given time could widen further. That’s a significant consideration when the numbers neck down to under 24 aircraft, in order to cover an entire country against a potential opponent who can field over 60 aircraft of comparable or better quality.
The second factor to consider is “network effects,” in which the value of a military platform increases with the number of associated choices in weapons et. al. F-16s do have the advantage of offering a much wider set of choices in weapons, targeting pods, engines, and other related equipment. This expands Morocco’s weaponry options to handle a variety of strategic scenarios, and avoids the Rafale’s limiting choices of either accepting supplier lock-in, or pursuing expensive local integration projects. The F-16’s network effects could well be more attractive to a country who values flexibility highly, and understands that flyaway aircraft cost, like the cost of a new car from a dealer, is only the beginning of the real expense of ownership.
The 3rd factor to consider is that the F-16 sale may also be set in the context of a wider security relationship with the USA, which would offset Morocco’s aircraft quality differential in a different way. The US DSCA adds that:
“The proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by enhancing Morocco’s capacity to support U.S. efforts in the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT), as well as supporting Morocco’s legitimate need for its own self-defense. Morocco is one of the most stable and pro-Western of the Arab states, and the U.S. remains committed to a long-term relationship with Morocco.”
That relationship undoubtedly had a role to play getting the American F-16 in the door as an alternative. Many people think that countries sell arms to people they wish to befriend; that is only very partially true. It is more true to say that countries tend to buy arms from nations whom they wish to be their friends, when the potential for a strategic relationship is a factor at all. This helps to explain why the F-16 became Morocco’s #1 alternative instead of (for instance) Sweden’s JAS-39 Gripen. Or cheap Russian fighters, which would be fatally compromised by Russia’s near-certain choice of Algeria and its gas reserves over Morocco in the event of a crisis.
While these security relationship dynamics always apply to global weapon purchases, it is very unlikely that they were decisive in winning the deal. If Morocco desires a relationship with the USA that extends to military support in times of crisis, that relationship cannot be dependent on a single minor aircraft sale; given the way America works, it either exists in any event, or it does not exist at all.
The last factor to consider is pride. Past reports have indicated that France’s initial sales efforts quoted one price, while a later call to the DGA concerning France’s price per aircraft gave a much lower figure. Negotiations went very cold after that, and serious discussions began with the Americans that would eventually lead to the F-16 sale. In a part of the world known for holding pride and honor in very high esteem, that kind of gaffe tends to have serious consequences. Not serious enough to break Morocco’s relationship with France entirely, of course; France is valued for strategic reasons. It was serious enough, however, that if the French reports are true and Morocco could find a “good enough” alternative, pride and the satisfaction of honor alone could explain the denouement we have seen:
Buy American jets to exact redress and serve as a warning to France not to do that again, while improving relations with another powerful ally. Couple that with a EUR 500 million order for a French FREMM frigate to shore up another need, and demonstrate to France that relationship still exists and honor has been satisfied.
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Dim 22 Fév 2009 - 15:49 | |
| Je pourrais connaître les composants Israélien présent dans les F-16? |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Dim 22 Fév 2009 - 16:08 | |
| tu pourrais parcourire le Topic? |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mar 24 Fév 2009 - 3:58 | |
| - Citation :
- General Dynamics Awarded $39 Million for F-16 Ammunition Handling System Production
CHARLOTTE, N.C. – General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products has been awarded a contract by Lockheed Martin for production of F-16 Ammunition Handling Systems (AHS). The total potential value of the five-year contract is $39 million, with an initial order of $8.9 million for systems for Turkish and Moroccan F-16 fighter jets. General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products is a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD).
According to Program Manager Steve Vander Kraats, “The General Dynamics F-16 Ammunition Handling System utilizes a closed-loop, linkless feed system, providing greater ammunition capacity than previous designs. It also enhances aircraft safety by eliminating potential damage by ejected ammunition casings. Combined with the M61A1 20mm Gatling gun, the AHS provides the F-16 aircraft with maximum air-to-air and air-to-surface lethality. Our team is excited about this opportunity, and we look forward to supporting Lockheed Martin and our allies with the continued success of the F-16 platform.”
Final assembly of the ammunition handling systems will be performed at the General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products Saco Operations facility in Saco, Maine, with testing and program management performed at the company’s Burlington Technology Center in Burlington, Vt. First deliveries of the system will occur in April 2010.
General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products’ site in Saco is the company's production site for single- and multi-barrel aircraft and crew-served weapon systems. The site provides complete production capabilities, from design and development to manufacturing, testing and integration.
http://www.generaldynamics.com/ Site du ProduitFiche PDF |
| | | juba2 General de Division
messages : 6954 Inscrit le : 02/04/2008 Localisation : USA Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mar 24 Fév 2009 - 17:09 | |
| - Yakuza a écrit:
-
- Citation :
- General Dynamics Awarded $39 Million for F-16 Ammunition Handling System Production
CHARLOTTE, N.C. – General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products has been awarded a contract by Lockheed Martin for production of F-16 Ammunition Handling Systems (AHS). The total potential value of the five-year contract is $39 million, with an initial order of $8.9 million for systems for Turkish and Moroccan F-16 fighter jets. General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products is a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD).
According to Program Manager Steve Vander Kraats, “The General Dynamics F-16 Ammunition Handling System utilizes a closed-loop, linkless feed system, providing greater ammunition capacity than previous designs. It also enhances aircraft safety by eliminating potential damage by ejected ammunition casings. Combined with the M61A1 20mm Gatling gun, the AHS provides the F-16 aircraft with maximum air-to-air and air-to-surface lethality. Our team is excited about this opportunity, and we look forward to supporting Lockheed Martin and our allies with the continued success of the F-16 platform.”
Final assembly of the ammunition handling systems will be performed at the General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products Saco Operations facility in Saco, Maine, with testing and program management performed at the company’s Burlington Technology Center in Burlington, Vt. First deliveries of the system will occur in April 2010.
General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products’ site in Saco is the company's production site for single- and multi-barrel aircraft and crew-served weapon systems. The site provides complete production capabilities, from design and development to manufacturing, testing and integration.
http://www.generaldynamics.com/
Site du Produit
Fiche PDF The Gatling Gun are deadly man,A10 war hog or the tank killer use the same. | |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mar 24 Fév 2009 - 17:45 | |
| pas de la meme taille,le Gatling du Warthog prend presque la moitié de l´avion,mais je craint que c´est un HS ici |
| | | juba2 General de Division
messages : 6954 Inscrit le : 02/04/2008 Localisation : USA Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mar 24 Fév 2009 - 18:14 | |
| - Yakuza a écrit:
- pas de la meme taille,le Gatling du Warthog prend presque la moitié de l´avion,mais je craint que c´est un HS ici
thanks for the info. | |
| | | Fox-One General de Division
messages : 8028 Inscrit le : 20/09/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mer 25 Fév 2009 - 12:34 | |
| les 4 ou 6 52+/D seront consacrés uniquement à l'entrainement et à la qualification des pilotes ou seront elles effactés aux opérations | |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mer 25 Fév 2009 - 12:39 | |
| y´aura 8 D entrainement sûrement,SEAD peut etre aussi |
| | | Fox-One General de Division
messages : 8028 Inscrit le : 20/09/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mer 25 Fév 2009 - 12:51 | |
| donc il y a seulement 16 qui seront vraiement OP. c peu à mon avis, il en faut une 20 pour ettoffer la flotte à travers tout le royaume. et garantir une menace de persuasion immédiate et massif | |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mer 25 Fév 2009 - 13:29 | |
| 16 OPs toutes seront Ops mon ami,training ne veut pas dire qu´ils ne feront que ca tous les jours,les gars feront leur debut surement en US ou belgique d´abord pour s´approfondire ensuite sur nos D(surtout pour le training A/G),et ces D font aussi du CAP qui a dit le contraire? faut savoir que moins de D tu as,plus tard tu aura ton Ops ex:avec 4 D,un escadron fera long qu´avec 8D avant d´etre Ops,et ces D peuvent tout faire et plus que le C en A/G meme regarde seulement les differenctes config que les autres pays ont pris -chili:6C+4D -Turkey:14C+16D -Israel:102D -Greece:34C+16D---18C+12D -Oman:8C+4D -Pologne:36C+12D (quota bas=problemes d´Ops) -Singapour:10C+22D le quota repsecté veut que tu dois avoir au moins 1 tiers en D(si pas plus) pour accelerer l´Ops et pouvoir aussi faire tout avec le D modele.( Q>=1/3) le probleme de la pologne montre que si tu fait la majorité en C,tu aura des problemes de retard et tu sera bcp plus dependant de l´USA pour la formation |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) Mer 25 Fév 2009 - 15:14 | |
| meme ceux qui sont destinés à l'entrainement peuvent servir à la défénse du territoire. Si les 8 cités sont équipés comme les autres en terme d'equipements, aucun probleme pour les equiper en armement ca fera toujours 24 f-16 |
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| Sujet: Re: Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) | |
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| | | | Moroccan F-16 Atlas Falcon / RMAF F16 block 52+ (Tome II) | |
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