Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder

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Citation :

Official designation: Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Xiaolong
PAF designation: Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder
Function: Air-superiority; Ground attack
Designer: Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute)
Manufacturer: Chengdu Aircraft Industry (Group) Corporation Ltd. (CAC)
Maiden flight: 25 August 2003
Operator: Pakistani Air Force
Estimated cost: US$15~20 million
The FC-1 (Fighter China-1) Xiaolong is the result of a joint Sino-Pakistani development programme that started in 1999, with each side contributing 50% of the total development cost. Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China is the prime contractor for aircraft development and manufacture, while Pakistani Aeronautical Complex (PAC) is the main partner responsible for post-sale service and maintenance, as well as the production of some parts for the aircraft in Pakistan. The aircraft was designed by Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute). Russia supplied its Klimov RD-93 turbofan jet engine for the aircraft.
The initial order was from the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) for eight aircraft, which were delivered in 2007~08. A further order for 42 aircraft worth about US$800 million was signed in March 2009. The aircraft is currently being built by CAC at a rate of 15 aircraft per annum, and this will increase to 30 aircraft per annum later. The total number required by the PAF could be as many as 250, worth US$3~5 billion.
Several other countries also showed interest in the aircraft. Despite previous reports suggesting that the FC-1 would also be equipped by the PLAAF, no order has been reported so far.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fc1.asp
_____________________________________________________________
French authorities have given approval for industry to offer a Thales RC 400 airborne fire control radar and MBDA Mica air-to-air missiles to Pakistan, to be fitted on the JF-17 jet fighter built under license from China, a Pakistani official said.
“They are cleared for export negotiation,” the official said.
The sale has raised concerns of a potential breach of the EU military embargo on China.
Pakistan and France have drawn up a memorandum of understanding in which Islamabad promises not to release technology to China, the Pakistani official said. French industry submitted prices about a year and a half ago for the gear and these were no longer valid. With export clearance, commercial negotiations can take place.
The Délégation Générale pour l’Armement arms agency, MBDA and Thales declined comment.
Source: DefenseNews.com
______________________________________________________________
Serial production of JF-17 aircraft to start soon, NA body told
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) would soon start serial production of JF-17 Thunder in collaboration with China, Standing Committee of the National Assembly on Defence Production was informed on Thursday.
The committee, headed by Sheikh Aftab Ahmad, visited the PAC and was given a detailed briefing on the ongoing projects. PAC Chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry gave a detailed briefing on the projects, informing them that the PAC has set up the factory for initiating the serial aircraft’s production. He said PAC had the capability to manufacture 75 percent of avionics and 58 percent of air-frame of the fighter aircraft.
About other projects being carried out by PAC, he said facility had been overhauling around 180 engines of various fighter jets and 60 aircraft a year. He also said the Mirage Rebuild Factory, which is a part of PAC has been rebuilding 35-year old Mirage aircraft, which were bought as scrap from various countries.
The chairman as well as members of the committee appreciated the work being carried out at PAC. They assured their full support to the management of PAC. app
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\01\02\story_2-1-2009_pg7_26
______________________________________________________________
French arms deal with Pakistan risks US ire
By Federico Bordonaro
The news last month that Pakistan is likely to get French air-to-air missiles (AAMs) and radar for its JF-17 fighter aircraft has raised some eyebrows in the US.
The reason is that MICA AAMs produced by MBDA and RC-400 multimission radar built by Thales may enrich China's rapidly growing military capabilities if sold to Pakistan, since Islamabad is developing its fighter plane jointly with Beijing. The JF-17 is a lightweight multi-role fighter co-developed by Pakistan

Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation under a joint venture of China and Pakistan.
Thus, some observers say, the widely debated European Union arm systems ban against China may finally be circumvented, in such a way that it could damage US efforts to keep Beijing's air power at disadvantage vis-a-vis Taiwan. As some Indian and Pakistani sources have pointed out, French-built Mirage fighters owned by Taiwan are actually equipped with such missiles and radar.
Taiwan and India are obviously concerned with China's military build-up. If China gets the chance to closely look at French advanced technology in possession of Taipei, Beijing could theoretically become capable of countering it effectively.
However, it must be noted that the issue of military technology transfer is fairly complicated, and that Pakistan's acquisition of French systems is not automatically a dramatic reinforcement of Chinese capabilities, unlike some reports suggest.
In fact, if French companies sell radar and missiles to Pakistan, they don't sell the know-how necessary to build such systems from scratch. Clearly, bits of the source code needed to integrate the components into the JF-17 will be transferred by the French to the Pakistanis. Missile-radar integration and avionics will be developed by France and Pakistan, with the Chinese contribution focused on hardware.
This means that if Pakistan transfers such code to Beijing, China could actually become capable of integrating the two systems into its fighter jets (like the J-10), although it will not include the JF-17 in its air force. But it does not mean that Beijing will be able to produce such systems.
Therefore, the key variable here is how many MICAs and RC-400s France sells to Pakistan. Of course, if Islamabad buys new series of them after the first acquisition, it is conceivable that China could get its hand on them in the future, independently of the JF-17 development.
Rumors of the deaL
It is certainly no secret that France has eyed Indian and Pakistani defense markets as a great opportunity to expand its strong military-industrial sector. For years, French companies have provided weapons and systems to both Delhi and Islamabad. However, the deal regarding the JF-17 has been a difficult one, mainly for political-diplomatic reasons. This explains the lack of information from France and the extreme cautiousness in all aspects of the current arrangements.
After some leading British and US publications highlighted the danger of sensitive military technology transfer to China via Pakistan, officials from MBDA and Thales refused to comment on the deal. France's Defense Minister Herve Morin subtly conveyed the Paris position nonetheless, as he replied to Associated Press journalists that "to my knowledge, there is no arms embargo for Pakistan".
Back in September 2004, Jane's Defence Weekly's special correspondent Robert Sae-Liu reported that the choice of a multimode pulse-Doppler radar for the JF-17 fighter was reported in 2003 as "involving a competition between Phazotron of Russia with the Kopyo system, Galileo (FIAR) of Italy with the Grifo S-7, and Thales of France with the RC 400".
Hence, a short history of the JF-17 project unveils Thales' interest. The simple fact that two French companies are involved in the issue worries the US. Paris has long lobbied within the EU for lifting of the arms embargo against Beijing imposed by Europe after the 1989 Tienanmen incident.
Most French Gaullists and Socialists have pushed for a lifting of the ban. The reason is twofold. On one hand, the French defense industry is aggressively seeking expansion in Asia's markets, and China is arguably the most interesting of them. On the other hand, Paris cultivates the geopolitical ambition of creating a multipolar world in which the EU will progressively acquire strategic autonomy from the United States.
However, President Nicolas Sarkozy's election in May 2007 has started an apparently rapid and powerful rapprochement between Paris and Washington on a number of issues. Interestingly, some French analysts who deal with so-called "economic warfare" dynamics have recently criticized France's pro-China orientation. They have even lambasted civilian air industry deals with Beijing made by Airbus, reasoning that French companies that only seek market opportunities will eventually jeopardize European technological superiority over China.
Up until this year, though, Washington has successfully counter-lobbied France's efforts to persuade its EU partners about the anachronism of the embargo, and the ban is still valid despite numerous predictions of its imminent demise. Now, Sino-Pakistani military cooperation, which is likely to remain strong also in light of the growing US-Indian strategic partnership, could complicate the situation even more.
Washington furious?
While on the surface the Franco-American reconciliation is fully underway, the reality is slightly more complicated. Paris' hard, pro-US stance on Iran's nuclear issue is one thing; another matter is how France and the US perceive the international system and balance of power.
Sarkozy's position on the arms ban against Beijing will possibly become clearer after the French president visits Beijing later this year, but it is unlikely that France will completely abandon its dream of a more assertive and autonomous Europe when it comes to security and defense policy.
Quoted by the Pakistani daily Dawn on September 14, British defense analyst and Asia specialist Alexander Neill said that Washington may have a "quite vicious" reaction if France does not reconsider selling such systems to Islamabad.
However, according to various sources, France and Pakistan will likely reach an agreement on the missiles and radar. It is thus possible that China will be able to exploit yet another fault line in French and American diplomacy.
Whether or not the development of the JF-17 will allow China to acquire military systems and technology that will boost its power in relation to Taiwan, as the US fears, such a program will likely cause a dilemma for France: by proceeding with enhanced cooperation with Pakistan, Paris risks not only triggering Washington's ire, but also upsetting India and Taiwan - thereby complicating its future defense marketing with two important buyers.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IJ10Df01.html

c'est sur qu'une participation marocaine à ce programme ne serait pas de refus,c'est un chasseur parfait pour nos besoins,en plus pas cher 15M $ l'unité

ou bien l'Armée Nigériane

ca dit asiatique,wait and see

j'ai pas vu " asiatique "

8 pour le srilanka
http://www.sundaytimes.lk/92246/pakistan-to-sell-jf-17-thunder-aircraft-to-lanka

Petit aperçu de la bête lors du Paris Air Show  

Plus j'apprend sur cet appareil plus je prie dieu pour qu'il fasse pas partie de notre inventaire.
Rien n'est encore arrete pour cet appareil meme le systeme de ravitaillement en vol.
Les chinois n'en veulent pas dans leur flotte et font tout  pour reduire les couts et le rendre attractif (Cycle de veleoppement court, production en masse avec tellement d'effort de promotion a l'export).

Citation :

JF-17 Block II advances with new refuelling probe

The first image of a new Chengdu-designed refuelling probe on the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter seen on the CAC airfield in late January. Source: CJDBY Web Page

Images revealed on Chinese websites on 23 January indicate the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) FC-1 export fighter - co-developed with Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, which calls it the JF-17 Thunder - is advancing into a 'Block II' development and reportedly testing new weapons.

New images of an FC-1 at the CAC airfield with port number 229 show the first employment of an apparently Chinese-designed aerial refuelling probe: an important feature of the JF-17 Block II version. The probe features a streamlined tube, is located below the aircraft's cockpit canopy frame and may be detachable.

Chinese reports indicate the refuelling probe design will be used by the Block II version of the FC-1/JF-17. However, this is not yet confirmed as the Chinese-designed refuelling probe differs from an initial version first seen on a JF-17 in Pakistan in late 2013. This previous design was entirely cylindrical and its shape and placement just behind the canopy frame indicate there was probably design assistance from Denel Aviation of South Africa. Denel, formerly Atlas Aviation, has previously assisted with outfitting some Pakistani Mirage III fighters with refuelling probes.


An earlier JF-17 refuelling probe design revealed in Pakistan in late 2013 was probably achieved with assistance from South Africa. (CJDBY Web Page)

Other images that appeared on Chinese websites in late January showed the new refueling probe-modified FC-1 in flight testing on an unknown but likely recent date. The Block II JF-17 will also feature a Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics and Technology (NRIET) KLJ-7 V2 radar and an improved data bus to handle integration of advanced air-to-air and precision-guided munitions.

An unconfirmed report published on 24 January on China's Sina.com website noted that Pakistan's indigenous 350 km range, optionally nuclear-armed Ra'ad (Thunder) air-launched cruise missile had been launched from a JF-17. The most recent test of the Ra'ad occurred on 19 January, but Pakistani reports did not mention the Ra'ad having been launched by a JF-17, even though this weapon has long been scheduled for JF-17 integration.
http://www.janes.com/article/57508/jf-17-block-ii-advances-with-new-refuelling-probe

Hhhhhh a wili moussiba srilanka Nigeria ouatathoum oua rah chinwa baraka ghir lhachia dial vt1 et pseudo mlrs jetable

sri lanka ont balayés leurs cafards

ont s inspirent khay Lemay

qatar

youssef_ma73 a écrit:

Plus j'apprend sur cet appareil plus je prie dieu pour qu'il fasse pas partie de notre inventaire.
Rien n'est encore arrete pour cet appareil meme le systeme de ravitaillement en vol.
Les chinois n'en veulent pas dans leur flotte et font tout  pour reduire les couts et le rendre attractif (Cycle de veleoppement court, production en masse avec tellement d'effort de promotion a l'export).

La Chine n'en prend pas car elle n'a pas besoin de cet avion multirole. Pour cela elle a deja ce qu'il lui faut, par contre elle est en train de prendre du J10 qu'elle va employer dans le seule role de de defence de l'espace aerien au dessus de son territoire. Le JF17 lui est plus multirole et répond a un besoin "différent".

Rien n'est encore arreté ? Mon cher ami tu ne maitrise pas très bien la notion de projet. Si rien n'etait arreté, l'avion ne serait pas encore dans les rangs de la PAF.

Une premiere version avait été arrêtée, le block I, car nous avions une urgence a commencer a remplacer nos vieux coucous.

Mais nous n'avons pas perdu de vue que nous devons continuer à l'ameliorer avec la possibilité de reporter sans probleme les nouvelles améliorations sur les blocks deja en services. Vous aimez les F16, vous voyez la notion de Block 40, block 50 etc mais pour le JF-17 c'est pas bon ?  Je ne connais pas le pourquoi d'un tel préjugé, mais vous devez avoir certainement vos raisons.

D'ailleurs, on ne  propose pas le block I à la vente. Mais le block 2  ou 3....

Pourquoi des cycle aussi court ?

Parce que si on découvrait des defaults, ou si de nouveaux parametres devaient etre pris en compte, il serait moins couteux et plus facile de modifier 50 avions que 250 avions.

On appelle cela le management du risque.

Merci vortex pour tes apports sur le sujet.
Le Maroc se situe côté client et comme tout les clients, on n'aime pas l'inconnu ou essuyer les plâtres. Le f16 est archi connu et combat proven.  Il est distribué à des milliers d'exemplaires et la chaîne mco très bien rodée  (le remplacement de pieces' depuis la commande gérée en automatique est de 48h....). Cet aspect (fluidité) est primordial et le Pakistan est novice dans le secteur. Mais bon' on parle d'un appareil dont le coût d'acquisition est 3 fois moindre qu'un f16...
Perso,  j'ai pas d'apriori sur ce zinc. En toute chose on en a pour son argent, et je ne m'attend pas à un service/produit équivalent à celui d'un zinc qui vaut le triple.
Le temps écoulé entre 2 Block aux usa est d'environ 5/6 ans, tu ne fais donc pas des mise à jour trop fréquentes et il s'agit de vrais apports, pas de réparation. ...quand ils te vendent le produit, il est certifié de la tête au pied, y compris la missilerie  (tests electromagnetiques et spécification à Edwards afb qui n'a presque pas d'équivalent au monde).
Y a qu'à voir les péripéties du F35, ou pour le moindre doute, c'est le retour à l'usine et ce, quel qu'en soit le prix. Je doute que chinois ou russe soient aussi rigoureux

Cordialement

Merci PGM d'avoir soulevé ce point que j'avais effectivement perdu de vue.

C'est un point extrêmement important (les indiens en savent quelque choses avec leurs Su et Mig et les Russes qui ne leurs livrent pas souvent les pièces détachées).

On peut aisément imaginer une guerre entre l'Inde et le Pakistan et hop plus de pièces...

Cependant, il faut savoir que le pakistan n'est pas seul a produire le JF-17. Il y a aussi la Chine. Et la Chine possède une force industrielle que le Pakistan ne possède pas.

Après comme je le disais dans mes autres posts sur d'autres topics, que il vous convient à vous et à vous seul de faire le choix sur ce qui répond à vos besoins et de votre volonté ou  non d'établir une industrie de l'aviation.

Mais les quelques préjugés doivent quand même être, à défaut d'être levé, au moins relativiser.

Après sur ce qui est du versionning en block, peut etre que le Pakistan aurait du y refléchir un peu mieux... mais les apports entre les block I, II et III sont assez conséquent tout de même.

Concernant, les F16 et leurs histoire de Blocks, cela correspondent plus a une evolution en temps normal c'est a dire sans urgence quelquonque, ce qui n'est pas trop le cas du Pakistan. Une premiere version est sortie après validation du minimum requirement avec une roadmap clairement définit pour les upgrades futurs... un peu la méthode Agile de developpement utilisée dans les projets informatiques.


Un exemple : on veut un avion avec les fonctions suivantes :
- a
- b
- c
- d
- e

Chiffrage en terme de temps nécessaire pour tout developper :

a = 10 unités temps
b = 15
c = 15
d = 25
e= 15

totale = 80

ok trop long car on a besoin urgent

Ok quel est votre besoin urgent ?

nous avons besoin de B et d en urgence..

ok alors voici le plan :

pour voir B, vous avez besoin de A, pour avoir le D, vous avez besoin d'avoir E

donc on vous propose une premiere version avec A B D et E = 10 +15+25 +15 = 65, le reste vous l'aurait rapidement une fois que la premiere version est OK.

C'est ce qui s'est passé avec le JF17. Ingénieux comme systeme  

C'est plus une optique de production et de timing.

Fraternellement,
Vortex

Juste pour comprendre un peu le contexte, quelles sont, selon votre perception, les menaces auquelles fait face le Royaume ? Aujourd'hui et demain.

Merci pourvotre aide car personnellement, jen'en vois pas,mais c'est certainement dû au fait que je ne connais pas l'historique de la région.

JF17 Block I escortant l'avion présidentielle Chinois lors de la visite du 20 avril 2015

[url=https://servimg.com/view/19429303/2][/url

photoshop ont dirait

Non ce n'est pas photoshopé. Cela a été pris depuis un F7 dual seater par Air Commodore Hamid Faraz

Citation :

Feature:  Pakistan Air Force fighter pilot demonstrates rare aviation photography skills

New April 28, 2015



by Muhammad Tahir



ISLAMABAD, April 28 (Xinhua) -- The gorgeous images taken of Pakistani fighter jets escorting the special plane of Chinese President Xi Jinping during his recent visit may have surprised many, as aviation photography of that level is a rare thing globally.



The fighter jet pilot, Air Commodore Hamid Faraz, who managed to take the famed photograph, said aviation photography was his passion and he had been focusing on it for the last six years and so was able to develop the requisite skills.



"This was the first occasion that I was honored with such a responsibility," Hamid Faraz told Xinhua in an exclusive interview in Islamabad on the latest photography experience.



The pilot-cum-photographer was asked how many times he had taken such photographs while he was in a plane and taking photos of other planes, to which he said he had flown more than 25 air-to- air photography sorties, so he had that experience.



"And it was that experience that gave me the confidence to execute this challenge to this level," he added.



Understanding the role of the pilot is key in aviation photography and following the rules of both disciplines -- avionics and photography -- perfectly, is key to achieve the highest-quality results.



The aviation photographer faces a lot of challenges and difficulties involved in how to handle the situation in the air. The process requires confidence as it is quite challenging, especially when a photographer like Hamid Faraz is tasked to capture such a unique flight or flights.



When asked about the preparation for the special photography task, the 50-year-old Air Commodore Faraz said he had performed certain checks like the setting of the camera and other equipment.



"I used a 72-200 mm zoom lens so that I could maintain sufficient distance from the aircraft, because I had to avoid getting too close to the aircraft. So I had a plan in mind and I briefed my photo pilot accordingly about how much distance we would maintain from that aircraft and then in the air I practically showed him that this is the distance I wanted to maintain."



"Previously, I have flown a number of sorties in which I designed the profile and took pictures of fighter aircraft in the air during maneuvering. And that was a great experience for me. For every mission I have to prepare well in advance. Only then am I able to produce such results," he added.



Aviation photography is far different from photography on the ground. Air-to-air photography, and especially taking photos of other aircraft, is difficult because the photographer is moving in three dimensions and his or her relative position to the other aircraft is extremely important. The photographer has to plan the mission and it depends a lot on his photo pilot as well to get the photographer into that position.



If the pilot is unable to maintain that position or is slightly higher or lower, or ahead or behind, then the photographer cannot take a good photo. So it depends on the pilot to get to that perfect position and then there are other things that count, such as the camera angle with respect to the canopy and the reflections.



Several variables like lighting conditions, good shooting angle and distance have to be considered to get the best shot and the most important point is the confidence to deal with the situation.



To the question why he had chosen a specific photograph among the 100 he had captured, Air Commodore Faraz said, "It gives an excellent view of the blue sky, a complete undercast of white clouds in which the aircraft are close to the horizon, so that is the reason it was chosen."

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=278969 


D'ailleurs la photo a été remise au Président Chinois :
[


Fraternellement

Ok.

Vortex10 a écrit:

Juste pour comprendre un peu le contexte, quelles sont, selon votre perception, les menaces auquelles fait face le Royaume ? Aujourd'hui et demain.

Merci pourvotre aide car personnellement, jen'en vois pas,mais c'est certainement dû au fait que je ne connais pas l'historique de la région.

Personne ne veut répondre   ? Personne n'est autorisé à répondre   ? ou bien il n'y a tout simplement pas de réponse à cette question  ?

Menaces aeriennes (air force Algerienne, air force Espagnole)

Menaces maritimes (marine Espagnole, marine Algerienne)

Menace terrestre (armée Algerienne à l Est, armée Espagnol dans les presides, Polisario au Sahara)

Espagne? je ^peux comprendre, mais l'Algérie ? Je pensais que vous etiez des pays freres.

On est pas des pays frères je considère plus un pays comme le Sénégal comme un pays frère que l'algerie perso.

Je ne connais pas votre histoire, donc vous m'excuserez mon ignorance sur ce sujet.

Cependant vous n'etes pas dans le meme cas que l'Inde et le Pakistan... donc au moins vous n'etes pas ennemi au sens propre... qu'il y ai une rivalité entre deux freres ca existe et ce n'est pas un mal mais quand deux frere deviennent ennemi.... enfin j'espere de tour coeur qu'un jour que vous vous sentirez Frere :-)

JF-17

Alloudi, j'essai de comprendre vos besoins, le pourquoi de vos besoins et de pouvoir mieux comprendre si le JF17 peut ou non répondre à vos besoins.

Mais je suis d'accord avec ton rappel