Armée Israélienne (IDF)

Raptor a écrit:

C'est pas grave même si c'est cher, c'est pas eux qui paient

Tu la sors d'où cette ''rumeur''?

Je la trouver dans un commentaire sur l'Article, ainsi que plusieurs forums militaires, parce qu'il cite pas le type des Meko qui va acquérir Israél, mais dans un autre article paru le 29 Juin dernier dans defensenews il cite le MEKO A-100

Citation :

TEL AVIV - In a radical revamp of its surface fleet modernization program, the Israel Navy has shelved long-held plans to purchase Lockheed Martin-produced Littoral Combat Ships (LCS), as well as a fallback option involving corvettes built by Northrop Grumman.

Instead, sources say, the Navy is pushing to establish a combat shipbuilding industry through customized, locally built versions of a German corvette design.

Now in an exploration phase, the concept calls for a stretched, approximately 2,200-ton version of the Meko A-100 built by ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), the Hamburg-based consortium building two Dolphin-class submarines for the Israel Navy. Countries that are building or now operating the 1,650-ton German-designed corvette include Malaysia and Poland.

Defense and industry sources said Navy discussions with TKMS about a possible licensed co-production deal began in January and have steadily expanded to involve Israel's Ministry of Defense, Treasury, relevant lawmakers and industry executives.

Avec le système Aegis israel pourra intercepté les missiles plus tôt alors qu'avec un système basé au sol ils seront obligé d'attendre les menaces balistiques.

Tout les navires possèdant le système Aegis font au tour des 6000 tonnes ( class Kongo, class KDX-II, F100 et Class Arleigh Burke) , si vraiment les navires israeliens le possèderont peut on parler de corvette....

Si les prochains navires israeliens seront équipés du système de combat Aegis ils auront surement le tonnage requis, pas moins de 5500 tonnes comme les norvégiens.

Raptor a écrit:

C'est pas grave même si c'est cher, c'est pas eux qui paient

Tu la sors d'où cette ''rumeur''?

si c est comme les sous marin ils devraient etre payé en grande partie par le contribuable allemand

non pas d´Aegis,deux MEKO a 400/500M€,equipés de Barak 8 et Arrow.
ca ne sera pas facile le financement allemand,ils peuvent tjs rever,surtout dans une situation financiere des plus difficiles ou se trouve le pays actuellement,faut lire les commentaires des allemands,c´est la rage et les freins lachent.. les gens veulent lyncher le politicien regional qui s´est dit d´accord,encore c´est Berlin qui décide pas les Länder.
ils ont deja demandé le financement du 6eme SM dernierement.

a mon avis c´est pour sonder le nouveau gouvernement droite-liberal,car toutes les facilités qu´ils ont eu avant etaient sous le gouvernement de gauche-verts SPD/Grünen,mtn ils sont partis..

en tout cas,les contribuables allemands sont contre,a part si Israel paie biensure,et encore..l´episode de gaza a laissé une mauvaise image d´israel ici

Ca dépend, un navire de guerre c'est aussi un coût en entretien, armement, équipage, etc.
Là les allemands n'auraient à payer que la construction, le reste sera à la charge d'Israël, le contribuable allemand n'a pas forcément plus envie d'entretenir 2 corvettes pendant 30 ans que d'en faire cadeau à Israël. et comme tu as dit Yak, les chantiers navales allemands ont pris chers avec la crise, mais comme cela va filer du boulot au Chantier

Viper a écrit:

Tout les navires possèdant le système Aegis font au tour des 6000 tonnes ( class Kongo, class KDX-II, F100 et Class Arleigh Burke) , si vraiment les navires israeliens le possèderont peut on parler de corvette....

Raptor a écrit:

Si les prochains navires israeliens seront équipés du système de combat Aegis ils auront surement le tonnage requis, pas moins de 5500 tonnes comme les norvégiens.

Les navires Aegis ne doivent pas nécessairement avoir 5000 ou 6000 tonnes, puisque existent divers modèles du Radar AN/SPY 1(Évidemment la portée du radar diminue quand le nombre d'éléments dans l'array est plus petit).Pour des navires comme les corvettes, la version utilisée de ce radar serait le AN-SPY 1K.Voici un interessant graphique à ce sujet..



Quant aux corvettes AEGIS il y a quelques années Navantia et Lockeed Martin ont conjointement développé la corvette AFCON(De 2600 T) par exemple, bien qu'à l'heure actuelle elle n'ait pas été exporté encore.



Voici plus d'information sur ce navire..

http://www.afconships.com/advantage.html

Citation :

F-35, dossier spécial sur le nouveau chasseur de l'aviation israélienne

Rubrique
Défense
Par
Maxime Perez
Publié le
27 octobre 2009
En 2014 au plus tard, l’aviation israélienne sera dotée du dernier tout avion de combat produit par le géant américain Lockeed Martin. Multi-rôle, furtif, possédant la technologie aéronautique la plus avancée, le F-35 n’en reste pas moins un appareil au coût exorbitant…
Au terme de négociations particulièrement âpres, l’acquisition par Tsahal du chasseur F-35, connu également sous l’appellation « Joint Strike Fighter » (JSF), a été officialisée cet été par de hauts responsables américains. Dans la foulée, le ministère de la défense israélien faisait parvenir au Pentagone une commande officielle chiffrée à 15,2 milliards de dollars.
La transaction prévoit de s’articuler en deux phases à l’issue desquelles l’aviation israélienne capitalisera une flotte de soixante-quinze appareils qui viendront remplacer les F-15 et F-16 vieillissants de la Heyl Ha’avir. Si le contrat devrait être signé début 2010, la livraison du tout premier escadron n’interviendra pas avant 2014, ce qui laisse penser qu’Israël ne pourra en faire usage en cas de confrontation militaire avec l’Iran dans un futur proche.
Priorité de l’actuel chef d’état major de Tsahal Gaby Ashkénazi dans le cadre de son « plan Tefen » de modernisation des forces armées, l’arrivée prochaine de F-35 vient toutefois conforter la suprématie aérienne de l’Etat hébreu dans la région, notamment face au renforcement des défenses syriennes et iraniennes en passe d’être équipées du redoutable système SA-300 de fabrication russe.
Obstacles
Dès 2008, la DSCA, l’agence officielle américaine qui supervise les ventes d’armes US à l’étranger, avait donné un avis favorable à la demande israélienne de se procurer 25 F-35 Lightning II, incluant une option portant sur 50 appareils supplémentaires du même type.
En dépit de l’aval rapide du Congrès, intervenu juste avant l’accession de Barack Obama à la Maison Blanche, Israël a exprimé plusieurs objections qui ont longtemps retardé la conclusion d’un accord. Jérusalem voyait d’abord d’un mauvais oeil que des pays comme l’Arabie Saoudite ou l’Egypte, clients traditionnels des industries de défense américaines, cherchent également à se doter du F-35.
Tom Burbage, responsable du programme JSF chez Lockheed Martin, avait alors du se rendre en personne à Tel-Aviv le 5 octobre dernier pour dissiper ces inquiétudes. L’autre point de friction du dossier a résulté de l’insistance d’Israël à vouloir remplacer certains composants électroniques de l’avion furtif américain par des équipements de sa propre industrie militaire. De la sorte, les Israéliens pensaient trouver le moyen de réduire le coût unitaire de chaque appareil, évalué entre 70 et 100 millions de dollars. Pour contourner le refus de Washington à cette demande, le ministre de la défense Ehoud Barak aurait décidé d’acquérir dans un premier temps des F-35A, davantage modulables et moins onéreux.
Le programme JSF
Bien que lancé au début des années 90, le programme américain Joint Strike Fighter n’en est qu’à la septième année de sa phase de développement. Destiné initialement à satisfaire les besoins d’un avion de combat polyvalent de l’US Air Force, de l’US Navy et du Corps des Marines, le programme décline, à partir d’une cellule de base, trois versions aux caractéristiques spécifiques : F-35A à décollage et atterrissage conventionnel, F-35B à décollage court et atterrissage vertical et F-35C destiné à opérer à partir d’un porte-avions.
Ces machines ont en commun les sous-systèmes les plus coûteux, tels que l’avionique, le moteur et certains composants structuraux. Non moins de 19 plateformes d’essais sont en cours de production. L’objectif fixé au maître d’oeuvre industriel, à savoir Lockheed Martin, consiste à initier les premiers essais opérationnels en 2010 afin de pouvoir atteindre une capacité opérationnelle initiale dès 2012.
Le programme du F-35 a été rapidement rejoint par une dizaine de pays européens qui participent à son financement et à sa réalisation. Unique partenaire de niveau 1, le Royaume-Uni représente le premier contributeur, grâce un apport financier de 200 millions de dollars pour la phase d’étude et de plus de 2,2 milliards de dollars pour la phase de développement et d’essais.
L’Italie, les Pays-Bas sont partenaires de niveau 2. La Norvège et le Danemark apparaissent ensuite aux côtés de l’Australie, du Canada et de la Turquie avec des contributions situées entre 122 et 175 millions de dollars. Israël, avec une contribution de 50 millions de dollars, entre dans la catégorie des « Security Cooperative Participants ».
Merveille de technologie
Du fait de sa furtivité qui le rend indétectable au radar, le F-35 entre dans la catégorie des avions de cinquième génération. Sur le plan logistique, le chasseur américain possède une soute à armements capable de loger principalement deux bombes guidées et deux missiles air-air AMRAAM.
La forme triangulaire de ses ailes lui permet en outre de bénéficier d’une autonomie importante et d’une manœuvrabilité comparable aux F-16 de première génération. Pesant seulement 20 tonnes en ordre de combat, le F-35 est considéré comme un avion relativement léger. Sa géométrie fait qu’il peut recevoir de nombreux armements sur 7 pylônes externes, jusqu’à neuf tonnes de charges diverses : réservoirs, bombes guidées, missiles de croisière et missiles air-air.
Doté de capacités air-air de premier ordre, le F-35 reste un appareil destiné en priorité à l’attaque. Son avionique est basée sur un processeur central à très haute capacité de calcul, capable de centraliser et de restituer les informations fusionnées par différents capteurs.
Le pilote est équipé d’un casque HMDS (Helmet Mounted Display System) produit par le fabricant israélien Elbit. Doté de fonctionnalités extrêmement évoluées, il permet aussi bien de désigner des cibles par un simple mouvement de la tête que de littéralement voir à travers le plancher de l’appareil, pendant les manœuvres d’atterrissage vertical par exemple.
Particulièrement puissant, le F-35 est motorisé par un réacteur à double flux Pratt & Whitney F135. Dérivé du F-22 Raptor, autre joyau de l’aviation américaine, il dispose ainsi d’un système de postcombustion lui permettant d’accroître considérablement sa vitesse supersonique.
Production massive
En dépit de la crise financière, le programme F-35 n’a pas été égratigné par l’administration Obama, contrairement F-22 dont la production devrait être arrêtée une fois livrés les 187 appareils commandés par l’US Air Force. Il est désormais question de doubler les commandes de F-35 au cours des cinq prochaines années ; une nouvelle stratégie d’acquisition censée amortir la facture globale du programme qui a coûté jusqu’ici près de 300 milliards de dollars.
Le général David Heinz, qui dirige le programme au sein du Pentagone, estimait récemment que l’appareil construit par Lockheed Martin pourrait à terme se vendre à 6.000 exemplaires. Si les Etats-Unis et ses huit partenaires étrangers ont prévu d’acheter un total cumulé de plus de 3100 unités, les premières ventes à d’autres pays, tels que l’Espagne, Israël, la Grèce, Singapour et la Corée du Sud, représenteront au moins plus de 1.000 commandes supplémentaires.
Mais, le temps passant, le besoin de remplacer les flottes d’avions de combat de quatrième génération – F-16, F-15 et F-18 engagés notamment en Irak en Afghanistan – devrait faire augmenter le total des ventes et faire du Joint Strike Fighter un avion de référence sur le marché.

Citation :

Israël commande en urgence 2 corvettes furtives à l’Allemagne

Les sources militaires de DEBKAfile indiquent que les 2 corvettes sont nécessaires pour contrer le renforcement des sous-marins iraniens et des bâtiments syriens en Méditerranée, et défendre les installations côtières comme les centrales électriques et les bases navales, dont les services israéliens de renseignement craignent qu’elles ne soient en danger en cas de guerre régionale.


La commande placée durant la visite de 3 jours à Berlin du chef d’état-major israélien, le Lt. Gen. Gaby Ashkenazi, à l’invitation du haut-commandement allemand, a surpris le ministère de la défense. L’Allemagne participe déjà à hauteur de 500 millions à la construction de 2 sous-marins Dolphin commandés par la marine israélienne. Cette nouvelle commande s’élève à plusieurs millions de plus. Des sources allemandes indiquent que la demande israélienne a été transmise à la Chancelière Angela Merkel qui a pris la décision.
La corvette allemande déplace 2.200 t, mesure 91 m de long et 13,4 de large. Son équipage est de 94 marins. Elle peut accueillir un hélicoptère de taille moyenne. Elle est aussi équipée de 24 lance-missiles (16 contre la terre et 8 contre d’autres navires). Elle dispose aussi de défenses anti-missiles et de canons automatiques. Son rayon d’action est de 7.400 km et sa vitesse maximale de 30 nœuds. Pour la marine israélienne, le gros avantage de la corvette est sa formidable puissance de feu et sa capacité à échapper aux détections radar.
Avant de commander les navires à l’Allemagne, la marine israélienne a étudié le marché. Le modèle proposé par Lockheed Martin était trop couteux : 600 millions $ pièce. Elle a donc ouvert des négociations avec le chantier allemand Blohm and Voss. Au départ, elle pensait faire construire les corvettes à Haïfa, les industriels israéliens se chargeant de l’installation des systèmes d’armes et de l’électronique. Mais, vu les tensions grandissantes avec l’Iran, le haut-commandement israélien a décidé de renforcer les défenses maritimes du pays le plus vite possible.
La nouvelle coalition montée par la Chancelière Merkel prévoit de réduire sa participation à la mission de maintien de la paix au large des côtes libanaises (FINUL navale).
Comme la marine allemande dispose actuellement de 2 corvettes au large du Liban, il est envisagé de les transférer directement à Israël au lieu de les ramener en Allemagne.

Source :: DebkaFiles

Ils parlent de corvettes de 2000 tonnes & 90 metres, j'en déduis qu'ils parlent de corvettes de type 130. en plus les marins israéliens doivent s'entrainer sur ce navire pour mieux la maitriser et pour cela il faut des mois. à noter aussi que le modèle 130 n'est, pour l'heure, pas adapté aux besoins israélien (besoin en petit AEGIS, ect....)

Citation :

Israel will delay the purchase of F-35 aircraft
Security sources estimated that the system supply Stealth aircraft postponed to the end of 2016 to achieve a lower price. The price of each aircraft is currently approximately 137 million

Arie Egozi Posted: 01.11.09, 14:54

Strengthened the assessment that Israel will delay the signing of the deal to purchase a sample Stealth fighter f-35, request deliveries later to try and achieve a lower price. At this point it seems that supply at least two planes is postponed until the end of 2016.

Security sources said that in the Air Force does not have to be among the first customers outside the U.S.. "Customers first always pay more, the prospect of bigger problems in airplanes," said one source.

Until now it seemed that the Ministry of Defense is trying to reach as soon as possible to sign the deal, since the Air Force said that he wants the plane to enter service early

As possible. It now appears that the growing minds of those who offer to wait with the purchase. They said the late delivery of the planes will get them without the "childhood issues", and at a lower price.

The price of each F-35 aircraft manufactured by Lockheed Martin, American is currently approximately 137 million dollars. In the first stage is the purchase of 25 aircraft with an option to purchase another. Price includes all the changes that the Air Force wants a plane.

Security system has been first option to buy only 20 planes, due to the high price of each one.

Delay signing the agreement to purchase the aircraft is another step in the chain of problems complicate the huge deal worth more than $ 3 billion.

Subcontracting contracts
After many delays in 2002, Israel joined the multinational project of the Stealth fighter, and extremely low status. The plane developed a Lockheed Martin company, and is designed for Air Force, Marines U.S. Navy. Full partners in the project are England, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway.

Israel offered to join in full partnership for a fee of $ 200 million. Later would reduce the amount to about 50 million, but even then the Ministry of Defense decided to avoid the investment amount. Israel's full partnership in the project would allow industries to design part of the Israeli security systems and then the production for all customers.

Security industry say the Defense Ministry's decision not to join the project status was full of "hard error". Negotiating the purchase of aircraft defense system tries to predict subcontracting for Israeli security industries. It to be varied to produce parts and systems for all Americans to buy aircraft other countries partnership in the project.

Lockheed Martin spokesman in Israel said that the issue under negotiation between the two governments and that nothing was agreed.

Source :: ynet

Que c'est il reellement passé a Deir Zor le septembre 2007 la version de Der Spiegel

Citation :

By Erich Follath and Holger Stark
In September 2007, Israeli fighter jets destroyed a mysterious complex in the Syrian desert. The incident could have led to war, but it was hushed up by all sides. Was it a nuclear plant and who gave the orders for the strike?
The mighty Euphrates river is the subject of the prophecies in the Bible's Book of Revelation, where it is written that the river will be the scene of the battle of Armageddon: "The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East."

Today, time seems to stand still along the river. The turquoise waters of the Euphrates flow slowly through the northern Syrian provincial city Deir el-Zor, whose name translates as "monastery in the forest." Farmers till the fields, and vendors sell camel's hair blankets, cardamom and coriander in the city's bazaars. Occasionally archaeologists visit the region to excavate the remains of ancient cities in the surrounding area, a place where many peoples have left their mark -- the Parthians and the Sassanids, the Romans and the Jews, the Ottomans and the French, who were assigned the mandate for Syria by the League of Nations and who only withdrew their troops in 1946. Deir el-Zor is the last outpost before the vast, empty desert, a lifeless place of jagged mountains and inaccessible valleys that begins not far from the town center.
But on a night two years ago, something dramatic happened in this sleepy place. It's an event that local residents discuss in whispers in teahouses along the river, when the water pipes glow and they are confident that no officials are listening -- the subject is taboo in the state-controlled media, and they know that drawing too much attention to themselves in this authoritarian state could be hazardous to their health.
Some in Deir el-Zor talk of a bright flash which lit up the night in the distant desert. Others report seeing a gigantic column of smoke over the Euphrates, like a threatening finger. Some talk of omens, while others relate conspiracy theories. The pious older guests at Jisr al-Kabir, a popular restaurant near the city's landmark suspension bridge, believe it was a sign from heaven.
All the rumors have long since muddied the waters as to what people may or may not have seen. But even the supposedly advanced Western world, with its state-of-the-art surveillance technology and interconnectedness through the mass media, has little more solid information than the people in this Syrian desert town. What happened in the night of Sept. 6, 2007 in the desert, 130 kilometers (81 miles) from the Iraqi border, 30 kilometers from Deir el-Zor, is one of the great mysteries of our times.
'This Incident Never Occurred'
At 2:55 p.m. on that day, the Damascus-based Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) reported that Israeli fighter jets coming from the Mediterranean had violated Syrian airspace at "about one o'clock" in the morning. "Air defense units confronted them and forced them to leave after they dropped some ammunition in deserted areas without causing any human or material damage," a Syrian military spokesman said, according to the news agency. There was no explanation whatsoever for why such a dramatic event was concealed for half a day.
At 6:46 p.m., Israeli government radio quoted a military spokesman as saying: "This incident never occurred." At 8:46 p.m., a spokesperson for the US State Department said during a daily press briefing that he had only heard "second-hand reports" which "contradict" each other.
To this day, Syria and Israel, two countries that have technically been at war since the founding of the Jewish state in 1948, have largely adhered to a bizarre policy of downplaying what was clearly an act of war. Gradually it became clear that the fighter pilots did not drop some random ammunition over empty no-man's land on that night in 2007, but had in fact deliberately targeted and destroyed a secret Syrian complex.
Was it a nuclear plant, in which scientists were on the verge of completing the bomb? Were North Korean, perhaps even Iranian experts, also working in this secret Syrian facility? When and how did the Israelis learn about the project, and why did they take such a great risk to conduct their clandestine operation? Was the destruction of the Al Kibar complex meant as a final warning to the Iranians, a trial run of sorts intended to show them what the Israelis plan to do if Tehran continues with its suspected nuclear weapons program?
In recent months, SPIEGEL has spoken with key politicians and experts about the mysterious incident in the Syrian desert, including Syrian President Bashar Assad, leading Israeli intelligence expert Ronen Bergman, International Atomic Energy Agency head Mohammed ElBaradei and influential American nuclear expert David Albright. SPIEGEL has also talked with individuals involved in the operation, who have only now agreed to reveal, under conditions of anonymity, what they know.
These efforts have led to an account that, while not solving the mystery in its entirety, at least delivers many pieces of the puzzle. It also offers an assessment of an operation that changed the Middle East and generated shock waves that are still being felt today.

la suite de ce passionnant roman d'espionnage ici :

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,658663,00.html

C'est très intéressant reese

ça montre que la défonce aérienne syrienne et Fragile pour qu'un squadron des F-15 traverse toute la série et bombarde le cite suspect et revenir a leur base sin et sauf
et encore une autre chose tous ça doit faire réflichir bien au Iranien

Négociation typique stratégique. Peut étre quand va voir un contrat avec prix faible

Citation :

Lockheed Martin in Israel amid concerns

Senior officials from aerospace giant Lockheed Martin were in Israel on Tuesday for talks with the Defense Ministry, in an effort to convince Israel to overcome concerns and go ahead with plans to purchase the fifth-generation F-35 stealth fighter jet.

Leading the Lockheed Martin delegation was Senior Vice President for Strategy & Business Development Bob Trice, who met Tuesday with Defense Ministry Director-General Pinhas Buchris, as well as with senior officials from the air force and the IDF's Planning Division.
According to senior defense officials, Lockheed Martin is concerned that Israel will not follow through with its initial plan to sign a contract for some 25 aircraft in the coming months. If the contract is not signed, there are concerns that other countries will follow suit and possibly slow down their procurement plans as well.
In July, the Defense Ministry submitted an official letter of request to the Pentagon to purchase its first squadron of 25 F-35 stealth fighter jets, but officials said Tuesday that the target date for a contract at the beginning of 2010 would likely not be met. As a result, the arrival of the aircraft - initially predicted to begin in 2014 - would likely be postponed by at least one or two years.
Also known as the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), the F-35 will be one of the most advanced fighter jets in the world and will enable Israel to phase out some of its older F-15 and F-16 models.
In the negotiations, Israeli demands have focused on three issues: the integration of Israeli-made electronic warfare systems into the plane, the integration of Israeli communication systems, and the ability to independently maintain the plane in the event of a technical or structural problem.
Another obstacle has been the price of the plane, which according to recent estimates will reach $140 million, according to Israeli specifications.
Defense officials said it was possible that if Israel waited several years to purchase the aircraft, it would be able to procure it for a lower price. Waiting, the officials said, would also reduce the chances of technical malfunctions, since they would be discovered and solved by the owners of the first batch of the jets.

Source :: Jpost

Ce n'est pas seulement une question de prix, c'est aussi question d'integrer des composantes israeliennes et c'est le côté le plus difficile de la négiciation. Car israel étant un pays non membre du programme JSF et qui a été invité au programme seulement en qualité d'observateur, s'il obtient le droit d'incorporer sa prore technologie ça risque de frustré les pays parincipaux du programme qui ont eu très peu d'autonomie de décision malgré leur financement.

Citation :

Israel F-35 modification plans deferred for cost containment


Israel has decided to defer a requirement to integrate indigenous munitions and an additional fuel tank on the first batch of Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters (JSFs) it plans to procure over fears it could push rising costs still higher.

Each of the first 25 aircraft could cost USD130 million should Israel be granted US government approval – expected in November – to install indigenous electronic warfare (EW) and C4I systems on the future fighter, Israeli defence sources told Jane's.

The price of the aircraft has already spurred internal debate; the Israeli Ministry of Defence (MoD) and commanders of the Israel Defence Force (IDF) land forces have called for the acquisition to be delayed by two years, while the Israel Air Force (IAF) has maintained the need to begin payments in 2010 ahead of first deliveries in 2014.

"The funds made available by a two-year delay [in procurement of the F-35] could satisfy land forces' requirements for hundreds of Namer infantry fighting vehicles and navy needs for new corvettes," one senior defence source told Jane's .

"The F-35 will not be relevant in any imminent conflict with Iran, while the Namers are necessary for renewed fighting in Lebanon, which will be part of any confrontation with Iran," added another IDF source.

Conversely, any delays from Israel could prove costly as Lockheed Martin may not be able to ensure deliveries by 2016, Yung Le, who directs the Israeli F-35 programme for the US company, told Jane's . "Other orders will occupy the F-35 production line at that time," Le said.

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw091104_1_n.shtml

Citation :

How Israel's war with Iran will be fought
It is precisely from the events of the passing week, which culminated in an impressive show of force reminiscent of the good old Israel Defense Forces - the IDF that carried out Entebbe and bombed the reactors in Iraq and in Syria - that Israel can glean an important lesson about the limitations of the power at its disposal. These are the limitations dictated by U.S. President Barack Obama: Israel's navy can intercept weapons shipments from Iran, Israel's Military Intelligence can expose Hamas long-range missile tests from Gaza, but at least for the time being, as long as the international community is conducting dialogue with Tehran over its controversial nuclear program, it is best that Israel doesn't do too much to annoy the adults.

The interception of hundreds of tons of weapons, believed to be an Iranian shipment meant for Hezbollah, in the Mediterranean on Wednesday wasn't any different from similar operations carried out by the U.S. Navy, twice this year, though Israel seized a significantly larger amount of weapons. Therefore, the display of the loot the IDF invited everyone to see at the Ashdod port on Thursday received a lukewarm welcome by the world media. It is great that Israel is uncovering and seizing Iranian weapons, the world leaders must be telling themselves, but is there anything here that we didn't know well before the Israeli commandos raided the Antigua-flagged ship in the middle of the night?

The execution by Israeli forces was impeccable, that's true. The IDF apparently followed the arms shipment for a long time, identified the correct ship and planned the operation which went off without a hitch. Now comes the part of diplomacy and public relations. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, who will be visiting Washington in the coming days, will be accompanied by intelligence officials who will present the details of the operation to their American colleagues, along with all the necessary proof that Iran is continuing to support terror despite Tehran's denials, and in blatant violation of UN Security Council resolutions.

On the public relations front Israel has gained some ground in light of the fact that both the seizure of the arms ship and the exposure of the Hamas missile test occurred right before the United Nations General Assembly debate on the Goldstone report, which accused Israel of having committed war crimes in Gaza last winter. While the IDF is being accused of war crimes, and the Goldstone report argues that the Israeli offensive was designed specifically to punish the Palestinian civilian population, it doesn't hurt to bring to the forefront the background to these allegations: the ongoing Iranian effort to arm terror organizations with rockets meant to kill Israeli civilians.

But, that's approximately it. Israel is allowed to pester Hamas and Hezbollah with intelligence maneuvers, initiate brilliant pinpoint operations, block their supply of weapons and expose Iran and its proxies - and no more. Here is what Israel isn't permitted to do, for now: Israel is forbidden from threatening to attack Iranian nuclear facilities (our leaders have, in an exceptional move, become silent on the issue). Also forbidden are deterrence displays against Hamas and Hezbollah that go beyond the norm. The White House has enough problems without having to pull satellite photos of Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza.

The priorities of the Obama administration are completely different. Besides its long delayed, critical, decision on the war in Afghanistan, the president is also plagued with internal U.S. issues and the erosion of his popularity among the American public. After that, in a high place on the priority list, stands the issue of Iran. Israel's job, right now, is not to interfere. We are apparently headed toward several more weeks of dialogue, and after that, if talks fail, a U.S. move to impose more sanctions on Iran. Only in 2010 will there be an actual assessment of what effect these sanctions will have, and whether it is possible to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb without resorting to military tactics.

A man who was, up until recently, involved in Israel's decision making process and continues to serve as adviser to many at the helm, said this week that in his opinion, the Israeli leadership should be very careful in formulating an opinion on the dialogue with Iran. He says that the idea of transferring enriched uranium from Iran to Russia is not necessarily a bad idea, and a similar idea was raised five years ago. It was then director of Israel's atomic energy committee Gideon Frank who came up with the idea, and presented it to then prime minister Ariel Sharon. The key, the man says, is in the supervision clauses of the deal. If Iran, in a surprise move, accepts a deal similar to the one it rejected last week, there is definitely room for dialogue.

The IDF must prepare itself for the possibility of an attack against Iran's nuclear facilities because that's the IDF's job. But when the debate among experts and analysts regarding such a scenario revolved around operative questions (will the Americans provide Israel with an airspace corridor over Iran? How many fuel jets will be required? Etc.) it is missing the point. The important question is how willing the U.S. is to protect Israel in the event of a counter attack. The message Israel is getting from Obama's administration at this time is that it is out of the question - and thus the likelihood of an Israeli attack on Iran diminishes drastically.

But how will an Israel-Iran war look if it breaks out eventually? This question is at the center of a new study compiled by the Defense Ministry. Researcher Dr. Moshe Vered writes that such a war could go on for a long time. He believes that the Iranian's typical willingness to sacrifice many victims for a long period of time in a conflict with Israel will dictate a prolonged war between the two states, which will be difficult to end.

Dr. Vered, a physicist, occupies various roles in the defense establishment's technology division. He published his study this week as part of a sabbatical at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar Ilan University. He argues that the length of an Israel-Iran war "will be measured in year, not in weeks or days." This stems from the Shiite perception by which one must fight and sacrifice for the sake of justice and to correct wrongs to Islam and to Muslims. "This outlook sees Israel's existence as a wrong that must be corrected for the sake of world redemption. The achievement of this goal will only be possible once Israel is annihilated. The Iranians will continue fighting this war, as much as it is up to them, until they achieve their objective, despite the heavy toll that will be exacted in battle," Vered writes.

Vered argues further that only the fear the Iranian regime being toppled could bring such a war to an end. But, it seems unlikely that Israel will be able to pose a real threat to the Iranian regime, and "in the absence of a way out, acceptable to both sides, the war could continue for a very long time."

Vered mentions the fact that the Iran-Iraq war, in the 1980s, lasted eight years. Iran fought many years to achieve its demands - to correct the basic wrong of Iraq's invasion into its territory, Iraqi recognition of its culpability, and the removal of the head of the Iraqi regime Saddam Hussein.

Iran paid an inconceivable price in that war - half a million dead and economic damage higher than the country's entire oil income in the 20th century - before it agreed to a ceasefire. The ceasefire came only when there was a real danger that the Iranian regime would not survive.

Vered writes that "one can't rule out with a high degree of certainty the possibility that a war will break out between Israel and Iran." Therefore, a careful assessment of the details of a possible war, and preparation for it, are essential. In his study, he fails to find anyone who could develop an effective method to shorten the time of a war.

He goes on to write that the fear of such a war should prompt Israel to prepare mentally, politically, and militarily, while creating ways to end it quickly, should it erupt. The assumption that the war will become prolonged should affect the way Israel prepares for it, as well it should affect the decision whether or not to attack Iranian facilities in the future.

Vered rejects the assumption that in the absence of a shared border, the Israel-Iran war will be fought only with surface to surface missiles. Such warfare shouldn't last a long time because Iran's supply of long-range missiles isn't large. However, he writes, it is more plausible to assume that Iran will want to continue the fighting against Israel via messengers: Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas, and maybe even an Iranian force on Syrian soil, as part of a defense treaty between Tehran and Damascus. He plays down the likelihood of a short confrontation (Israeli assault followed by a punishing counter assault and then an immediate ceasefire under international pressure while both sides realize that the war has played out), he thinks that the ideology of the Iranian regime will dictate a prolonged war. Yes, this isn't exactly what you would call relaxing reading material for the weekend.

source :: haaretz

Citation :

Hizbullah getting ready for new war
Fearing Israel will launch an assault on Hizbullah before a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, the Lebanese guerrilla group is getting ready for a new war, the Observer reported on Sunday.

According to the British newspaper, Hizbullah has been "busy reinforcing fixed defense positions" north of the Litani River, and after losing many of its bunkers in the south during the Second Lebanon War, is preparing "a new strategy" to defend villages there.
"Sure, we are rearming, we have even said that we have far more rockets and missiles than we did in 2006," a Hizbullah commander, speaking on condition of anonymity, was quoted as saying by the newspaper. "We had to blow up or leave some of our bunkers and fighting positions, but we still have plenty of capabilities in the south. We expect the Israelis to come soon, if not this winter, then they will wait until spring, when the ground isn't too soft for their tanks."
The report comes less than a week after the Israel Navy seized a cargo ship loaded with hundreds of tons of weaponry sent to Hizbullah from Iran.
Andrew Exum, a military expert on Hizbullah at the Centre for New American Security, was quoted by the Observer as saying that Hizbullah no longer controls the border, due to the presence of UNIFIL.
"They appear to be hardening the villages for this next round of fighting, while pushing their fixed positions north away from UNIFIL to protect the approaches to Beirut and the Bekaa Valley," he said.

Source :: Jpost

D'aprés mes informations il s'agit plutot de meko 200 ,qui serai construit en israel,mais le fait que les chantiers allemands traverse une crise,fait dire a berlin qu'il serons construit en allemagne.

les israeliens n'ont pas besoin d'un aegis,ils ont leurs propre systémes le MF-STAR qui est moin lourd, les chiffres officiel donne 250 km de portée pour un missile en approche en haute alltitude ,et 25 km pour un missile en profil basse alltitude.ce qui donne un bon outil au barak huit qui a 80 km de portée.
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/4/36844.pdf

GlaivedeSion a écrit:

D'aprés mes informations il s'agit plutot de meko 200 ,qui serai construit en israel,mais le fait que les chantiers allemands traverse une crise,fait dire a berlin qu'il serons construit en allemagne.

les israeliens n'ont pas besoin d'un aegis,ils ont leurs propre systémes le MF-STAR qui est moin lourd, les chiffres officiel donne 250 km de portée pour un missile en approche en haute alltitude ,et 25 km pour un missile en profil basse alltitude.ce qui donne un bon outil au barak huit qui a 80 km de portée.
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/4/36844.pdf

Merci Glaive pour ces infos, et bon retour

avant


apres

C'est l'installation syrienne, soi disant "nucléaire", qui a été bombardé par l'IAF ?

des infos de Tsahal :
l'exercice juniper cobra 10 a prit fin cette semaine par le tir d'un missile patriot 3
les systémes impliqué coté us etais thaad,aegis,patriot 3 ,coté israelien arrow 2,hawk,et patriot 3.



Tsahal est l'armée jordanienne ont accomplie un exercie en commun visant a prévoir une catastrophe naturel l'exercie avait lieu en israel.

l'armée de l'air israelienne va participé en Gréce a un exercice csar avec ces helicoptéres CH-53 ,les grecs utiliserons tous leurs systémes dca russes a la demande d'Israel ,l'exercie aura lieu sur la base de Andravida.

le compte rendu de la capture des armes destiné au hezbollah fait etat de 500 tonnes d'armement dont 2800 roquettes de 122 mmet 577000 balles d'ak-47,

est ce que l'excercice avec les Grecques vient suite à la détérioration des relations avec la Turquie ?

non ils l´ont deja fait avec la grece en 2006 ou 2007,ils s´entrainent sur les batteries S300P au sud de chypre

FAMAS a écrit:

est ce que l'excercice avec les Grecques vient suite à la détérioration des relations avec la Turquie ?

non,la gréce dispose d'une dca idéale pour israel,S300 ,tor m1,hawk .
l'excercie en sardaigne avec l'italie ,lui oui apres que anatolian eagle est été annuler, l'italie et israel ont organisé leurs propres excercices avec F-16I et F-15I coté israelien et EF-2000 coté italien.