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Sujet: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Dim 2 Déc 2018 - 22:36
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BELLINGCAT a écrit:
Investigating The Kerch Strait Incident
On the 25th of November, Ukraine and Russia were involved in one of the most serious confrontations of the almost 5-year long conflict between the two countries. Russian Navy vessels first rammed and then later fired on and captured three Ukrainian Navy vessels, marking the first time Russian-flagged military units had officially attacked those of Ukraine.
Like many events in this conflict, both sides put out conflicting stories of what happened, as well as statements accusing the other of breaching international law. But what can we say for certain happened?
The First Confrontation
The opening act of the clash between the two navies began around 07:00 Russian time. Three Ukrainian Navy vessels – the Gyurza-M-class artillery boats ‘Berdyansk’ and ‘Nikopol’ and the tugboat ‘Yany Kapu’ – sailed towards the Kerch Strait, aiming to transit to the Ukrainian port of Mariupol. At around this time, they were intercepted by Russian Coast Guard vessels including the ‘Don’ and the ‘Izumrud’.
At this point, the clarity of the picture begins to break down. Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) claims that Russian vessels attempted to hail the Ukrainian ships and ask them to turn back, as they were not allowed to transit the Kerch Strait without a Russian navigator on board. The Ukrainians, for their part, claim they were illegally intercepted and had the right to free navigation through the strait.
As to what happened next, we need to analyse several primary sources. The first of these is an alleged communications intercept released by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU). In it, several groups of Russian naval officers discuss the events which took place. There is no specific timeframe given, and it appears that the intercept is a collection of several recordings between different people forming seven discrete conversations.
From this recording, several key pieces of information can be taken away. The first is that the Russian vessel ‘Don’ rammed the ‘Yany Kapu’ twice. Once at 07:35 at the location (44°56’00″N 36°30’08″E) and a second time at 7:44 at (44°56’06″N 36°30’05″E). The second takeaway is that Russian vessel ‘Izumrud’ was damaged in a collision with another Russian ship.
Another piece of evidence is a video showing the Russian ship ‘Don’ appearing to intentionally ram the Ukrainian tug ‘Yany Kapu’. This footage can be seen below.
From this footage, several things can be seen. First, the identity of the boat which the video was shot from can be determined from the distinctive off-set 30mm autocannon seen at 0’51” in the footage, which is also present on the preexisting photos of the ‘Don’. Second, the approximate time of day that the video was shot can also be determined. In the footage, it appears to be shortly after sunrise. According to SunCalc, sunrise on the 25th of November in this area was at 7:46. As such, the video must have been shot within around an hour after sunrise the given the relatively low position of the sun in the sky. As well, in the video, a voice (presumably that of the pilot of the ‘Don’) shouts “eight twenty-one (08:21)” immediately after the collision. It is likely this is the time of the collision and appears to converge with the timeframe suggested by the solar position.
This is further backed up by an apparently unnoticed detail in the video. In it, the tug ‘Yani Kapu’ has already sustained damage from at least two individual strikes. This would confirm that it happened after the 07:35 and 07:44 strikes mentioned in the SBU intercept video. Photos of these areas of damage, when compared to a photo of the undamaged ship taken just a day before can be seen below.
Notably, following this video, the Yani Kapu was struck at least one more time. Video released by Telekanal Zvezda shot an hour or two later in the morning, when the sun was higher in the sky, shows that the tug has sustained additional damage to its port stern, which was not present either in the ramming video or the image taken of the Yani Kapu on the 24th of November.
Further evidence also backs up information from the SBU intercept. Images released by Kerch.FM show damage sustained by the Russian Coast Guard ship ‘Izumrud’. The location of this damage (high on the starboard midship area) is consistent with a strike from a Russian vessel larger than the smaller Ukrainian boats. As well the long scar along the side of the ship is inconsistent with weapons damage. This fits in with the SBU tape wherein a collision between ‘Izumrud’ and another Russian vessel is discussed.
The Second Confrontation
As the day continued, Russian Coast Guard vessels continued blocking manoeuvres against the three Ukrainian ships. A large cargo vessel was used to physically block the narrow passage under the Kerch Bridge, and a separate group of three Ukrainian naval vessels in the Sea of Azovwas forced to return to their base in Berdyansk.
Little information exists for what transpired over this period, however, the SBU intercept recording suggests that one of the Russian Coast Guard vessels took on a complement of 10 special forces soldiers to assist in later actions.
The aforementioned Telekanal Zvezda video also contains another piece of useful information. In the first few seconds of the video, a bulk freight ship identified as the ‘Aviona’ can be seen within a few hundred meters from one of the Ukrainian armoured artillery boats. Using ship-tracking website MarineTraffic, we can determine that the ‘Aviona’ was at anchor in the Kerch Strait in effectively the same location for the entirety of November 25. This gives us a new data point for the location of the Ukrainian ships later in the day, much further north than previous positions.
Under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) which Ukraine and the Russian Federation are parties to, territorial waters extend at most 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state. Notably, this additional position near the ‘Aviona’ shows a Ukrainian vessel within not just the territorial waters of Crimea, but also mainland Russia.
It is also worth noting that Ukraine, as well as most Western countries, does not recognise Russia’s annexation of Crimea, and by extension its territorial sea. Moreover, Ukraine has cited a 2003 agreement with Russia that denotes the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait as a shared waterway, allowing free passage.
After 18:00 local time, however, the Ukrainian ships attempted to leave the area, and return to their home port of Odessa. They were, by all accounts pursued, intercepted, fired on, and boarded. Several Ukrainian soldiers were injured and the ships were later captured by Russian Naval forces.
Both sides made attempts to assert that this clash happened either outside of Russian-claimed territorial waters (in the case of Ukraine) and inside them (in the case of Russia).
The Russian FSB released a detailed timeline of the events of the day, including a number of geographical positions in which key events occurred. These events are plotted on the map seen below.
The Russian FSB makes that point that the initial interception, as well as the warning shots, and finally the shots which hit the ‘Berdyansk’ all took place within the ‘territorial waters of Russia’. This does not align with the location data they themselves released.
Specifically, the most serious incident – the shooting of the ‘Berdyansk’ – took place at 44°51.3’N, 36° 23.4 E (notated in the official release as Ш=44° 51’3 СШ, Д=36° 23’4 ВД). We know the FSB is using decimal arc-minutes in their notation, rather than arc-minutes and arc-seconds, due to the fact that an earlier location is given as (Ш=44° 53’47 СШ, Д=36° 25’76 ВД) something which would be impossible under a degrees and minutes notation style – specifically the final digits ‘76’.
As can be seen in the above image, the FSB data, if correct, shows that the ‘Berdyansk’ was 22.72km from the coast of Crimea, and more than 500m outside of Russian-claimed territorial waters when it came under fire.
Ukraine for its part provided less detailed information regarding key locations during this period.
Unfortunately, while Ukraine asserts that its ships were outside of the 12 nautical mile UNCLOS limit, even if their location data is taken at face value, it is inconclusive. This is due to the fact that they only provided 4-digit locations. Such locations do not pinpoint a single point but rather a rectangle approximately 1.8 km on the N-S axis and 1.3km on the E-W axis. Given this level of imprecision, the positions could be potentially within, or outside of the 12 nautical mile limit. Ukraine likely does have access to more precise location data, and could make this public if it wishes to add clarity.
Additionally, an alleged mayday call released by Ukrainian publication Liga Novosti from one of the three Ukrainian vessels includes the audio “How many wounded do you have? I need help! I need help! Mayday! Mayday!” followed by the coordinates N 44° 51’ 00’’, E 36° 23’ 04’’. This location is southwest of the position Russia claims it fired on the ‘Berdyansk’, and is also outside of the 12 nautical mile limit, and thus in international waters.
As for the details of the confrontation itself, we again fall back on statements by both Ukraine and Russia, in lieu of primary sources. Interestingly, neither country’s statements contradict the other aside from their positions relative to the territorial waters line. Both sides claim that Russian forces shot at and crippled the ‘Berdyansk’, capturing it and the tug Yani Kapu shortly after. Initially, the Ukrainian military claimed that both the ‘Berdyansk’ and the ‘Nikopol’ ships had been damaged, before clarifying at 23:20 (Russian time) that only the ‘Berdyansk’ was hit.
Photos of the Ukrainian ships in port in Kerch post-capture show many small calibre bullet holes in the ‘Berdyansk’ as well as at least one large calibre hole in its bridge. This larger hit especially confirms that Russian forces were not shooting to disable the vessel, but rather to harm the crew. The FSB release itself notes that the Russian Coast Guard vessel ‘Izumrud’ issued threats to the ‘Berdyansk’ that “weapons to kill” would be used if the vessel did not comply with its request to stop.
Summary:
From this information, several things are made clear. Firstly, based on geolocated video footage, Ukrainian ships did enter Russian-claimed territorial waters, both that of Crimea and mainland Russia in the Kerch Strait. Ukraine nonetheless argues this was legally permissible due to the 2003 agreement between the two countries. Secondly, we can say that the Ukrainian tug ‘Yani Kapu’ was intentionally rammed at least four times over a period of at least an hour. Thirdly, based on information provided by the Russian FSB which appears to incriminate themselves, the shooting of the ‘Berdyansk’ most likely took place in international waters.
messages : 4848 Inscrit le : 07/08/2008 Localisation : en territoire hostile Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Sujet: Re: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Sam 19 Fév 2022 - 11:20
Pour rappel, l'Ukraine ne faisant pas parti de l'OTAN, les USA (comme bon nombre de pays d'aileurs) n'iront pas à la confrontation armée face à la Russie...
Lors d'un intevew radio, un colonel français a clairement dit que la France ne rentrerai pas en conflit armée avec les russes (d'oû les seuls menaces d'ordre économique).
Malgré un soutient dans la formation et quelques armes de la part des USA et Européens, les Ukrainiens seront seul face aux russes...
Le Canada a également retiré ses forces présentes en Ukraine...
_________________ L'homme sage est celui qui vient toujours chercher des conseils dabord, des armes on en trouve partout.
feu Hassan II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbjNQ_5QvgQ
Voldenuit aime ce message
RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 12303 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Sujet: Re: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Sam 19 Fév 2022 - 13:30
Les séparatistes du Donbass ont fait un appel a la mobilisation générale
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marques General de Brigade
messages : 3969 Inscrit le : 05/11/2007 Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Sujet: Re: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Sam 19 Fév 2022 - 13:56
RED BISHOP a écrit:
Les séparatistes du Donbass ont fait un appel a la mobilisation générale
je crois que l'algérie va les soutenir au nom du droit des peuples à s’autodéterminer (sauf le peuple Kabyle bien entendu)
Ce conflit est entrain de prendre une tournure très bizarre, autant les chinois lors du sommet Xi-Jiping/Poutine ont soutenu les Russes (notamment sur les accords de Minsk) autant la sortie du FM Chinois est particulière..Soit il y'aura rien soit ça sera limité aux bandes Est...
_________________ Le courage croît en osant et la peur en hésitant.
Fahed64 aime ce message
Fahed64 Administrateur
messages : 25537 Inscrit le : 31/03/2008 Localisation : Pau-Marrakech Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Sujet: Re: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Sam 19 Fév 2022 - 17:00
Ils veulent se donner une légitimité diplomatique mondiale.
_________________ Sois généreux avec nous, Ô toi Dieu et donne nous la Victoire
Sujet: Re: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Sam 19 Fév 2022 - 17:04
Exact Ssi Fahed j'ai pensé à sa aussi, car d'habitude les Chinois sont souvent ''neutres'' dans les question diplomatiques...Surtout que si on prends les choses d'un point de vue Chinois prendre la parti de la Russie est beaucoup plus accommodant car in fine l'objectif de Poutine c'est à moyen terme que les régions Russophones soient intégrés à la Russie (c'est le but même des accords de Minsk) les Chinois ont + ou - les même ambitions avec Taiwan
_________________ Le courage croît en osant et la peur en hésitant.
Fahed64 aime ce message
RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 12303 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Sujet: Re: Tensions russo-ukrainiens Sam 19 Fév 2022 - 17:10
Bien entendu que les Chinois vont soutenir les Russes, en plus ca va occupée les USA en Europe et il seront tranquille en Asie
C'est donc officiel...La manière dont Poutine a conduit les choses montrent qu'il y pense depuis 1 moment, en face entre les Allemands qui ont le derrière entre deux chaises (NS2/OTAN) la France qui y'a quelqu'un qui pense à sa campagne électorale (ca montre aussi que l'Union européenne n'a d'union que le nom) et l'administration US qui manque totalement de leadership...Enfin bref j'espère que ceci n'aura de conséquences trop néfastes sur les cours du baril de pétrole (Allah yehfed)
_________________ Le courage croît en osant et la peur en hésitant.
Fahed64 et QuickShark aiment ce message
RED BISHOP Modérateur
messages : 12303 Inscrit le : 05/04/2008 Localisation : france Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Poutine va faire une déclaration pour reconnaitre les 2 republiques séparatistes Macron va reunir le Conseil de Defense Francais Idem pour le Président Ukrainien Le chef des relations exterieurs de l'UE va proposer des sanctions immédiates contre le Russie si elle reconnait les séparatistes
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Fahed64 Administrateur
messages : 25537 Inscrit le : 31/03/2008 Localisation : Pau-Marrakech Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Les États-Unis ont essayé de "couillonner" les russes en amenant petit à petit l'OTAN aux portes de la Russie, la réponse du berger à la bergère c'est la reconnaissance à venir des républiques "indépendantistes" pro-russes, le rôle du cocu comme dans toute comédie à la Feydeau étant tenu par l'Ukraine. Manu et Olaf tenant la chandelle...
Bruce Wayne, Fahed64 et QuickShark aiment ce message
Je suis d'accord avec vous Ssi Rafi les US n'ont pas tenu paroles sur leur engagement que l'OTAN n'irait pas au-delà de la ligne Oder-Neisse (je pense que c'était Gorbatchev et Bush Sr)... ceci étant l'intention de Poutine est d'aller au-delà d'une reconnaissance des deux républiques séparatistes et de reprendre l'Ukraine (il l'a clairement sous-entendu) et le problème c'est que ceci peut (dieu nous en préserve) débouché sur un conflit mondial
_________________ Le courage croît en osant et la peur en hésitant.
Fahed64 aime ce message
rafi General de Division
messages : 9496 Inscrit le : 23/09/2007 Localisation : le monde Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Quand il les aura reconnu comme républiques, il les intégrera d'une manière ou d'une autre dans la "grande Russie" comme cela a été le cas pour la Crimée, maintenant est-ce que cela va nous péter à la figure pour autant, qui vivra verra, Ssi Bruce. L’évacuation des quelques soldats US présents sur le territoire ukrainien a "légèrement" refroidi le président du pays d'où sa tentative de revirement.
Bruce Wayne, Fahed64 et QuickShark aiment ce message
rafi General de Division
messages : 9496 Inscrit le : 23/09/2007 Localisation : le monde Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
L'Ukraine va finir diviser en deux, le Dniepr faisant office de frontière comme à la vieille époque ( État des 2 nations).
Ceci est très intéressant pour nous, une fois de plus l'ordre mondial post 2 GM et post colonisation est amené à petit à petit s'effacer ouvrant la voix à des revendications territoriale de toute part....
_________________ Sois généreux avec nous, Ô toi Dieu et donne nous la Victoire
Bruce Wayne et QuickShark aiment ce message
atlas General de Division
messages : 7363 Inscrit le : 15/06/2008 Localisation : vitrolles Nationalité : Médailles de mérite :
Elle l'est déjà divisé en deux depuis la Crimée, Fahed, elle le sera désormais en quatre. Voire en 5 si les polonais veulent récupérer la région de Lwow.
Bruce Wayne, Fahed64, QuickShark, sraboutibada et Stinger aiment ce message
Dim 2 Déc 2018 - 22:36
